Indo-European origins.

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Originally Posted by kabeiros

People tend to be very absolute about what were the IE haplogroups...but different families of IE could have belonged to different y-dna.

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Yes, over time, the different Indo-European-speaking branches had obviously assimilated a quite wide range of haplogroups (I1 - the oldest Y-DNA haplogroup in Northern Europe, was assimilated into what would be the proto-Germanic branch, for instance).

But IE-languages haven't always been spoken by a wide range of people. It had to begin with smaller, specifically Indo-European tribes who first began to speak the proto-Indo European language. These first IE-speaking tribal groups didn't have to be 100% homogeneous with regards to Y-DNA and mtDNA haplogroups, of course, but we can probably be pretty much sure that some haplogroups would have been much more prevalent among them than others. Many people believe R1a was most likely this haplogroup.

I was a bit too quick to vote in the poll here, and I'm not able to delete my vote unfortunately. Even the "experts" argue about different hypotheses, and I don't feel I know enough about the topic to be completely convinced about the truth of one of these theories. We will probably sort this out in the future.

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Originally Posted by Optimus

According to Dienekes apparently Indo-Europeans were Bronze Age invaders from West Asia who carried the Y-DNA J2a and the WestAsian autosomal component.

While the second opinion which is supported by more geneticists is that Indo-Europeans originate somewhere from Central-Eastern Europe and carried the R1a1a male lineage.

What is your opinion,where did IE people originate?

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Not by genetists but some linguists and archeologists who base this on chariots and horses which they believe where domesticated first in the steppes however. the first linguistic traces of Indo Europeans are from Anatolia (The Hethits) who are believed to have come from a city Southeast of Anatolia.

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Originally Posted by Demhat

Not by genetists but some linguists and archeologists who base this on chariots and horses which they believe where domesticated first in the steppes however. the first linguistic traces of Indo Europeans are from Anatolia (The Hethits) who are believed to have come from a city Southeast of Anatolia.

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The Hittites didn't speak proto-Indo European, though, but a later linguistic development.

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Originally Posted by Optimus

The spread of R1a1a reflects well the spread of Indo-European languages from Central-East Europe.

http://www.tiggernut.com/Mito/R1a-map.jpg
http://www.usu.edu/markdamen/1320His...nguagesmap.jpg

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The Kurgan hypothesis your talking about does not support an "Central"- East European origin of Indo European language but an East European/North Caucasus/North Central Asian one.

http://www.dadamo.com/wiki/indo1.jpg

while the West Asian Hypothesis

http://people.musc.edu/~geesey/Image...mmigRoutes.jpg

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Originally Posted by Demhat

Not by genetists but some linguists and archeologists who base this on chariots and horses which they believe where domesticated first in the steppes however. the first linguistic traces of Indo Europeans are from Anatolia (The Hethits) who are believed to have come from a city Southeast of Anatolia.

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According to a lot of scientists Hethits came to Anatolia from Central Asia, before foreign invasions in Anatolia had lived people from caucasian language group.

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Originally Posted by Joseph Capelli

That's the old theory. R1a originated in West Asia.

http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/4776/byeurogenes.png

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This is an idea which starts to get support by many geneticists. The two main R1a* subclades +z93 and +z283 where found together in East Anatolia/West Iran/North Iraq among Kurds.

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Originally Posted by Optimus

Highest diversity of J2 is found in Caucasus and the highest percentage of WestAsian/Caucasus component is found among non-Indo European speaking people in Caucasus so that is totally invalid.Moreover G or specifically G2a has absolutely nothing to do with IE people they were early Neolithic Sardinian like farmers.

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Highest North European/Atlanti-Baltic component is found among Finno-Ugric speaking Finns.

What I believe there were two Indo European waves. The first and original from West Asia into the steppes, where they mixed with North European Hunthers and Gatheres and become West Asian/North European by autosomal data. And the one which moved into North and Central Europe became more "North European" while the one moving into West Asia became more West Asian.

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Originally Posted by Albion

No, these haplogroups were in Europe before IE was. Only R1a and possibly R1b are Indo-European.

I1, I2 = native
N, G, J2, E = Neolithic farmers (likely speaking Afro-Asiatic, South Caucasian or something akin to Sumerian)
R1a, R1b = the latecomers, Indo-Europeans.

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The first R1b in Europe where found among the late neolthic Bell Beakers which Skull structure were described as "Dinarized".

Obviously Eastern Europe and not Asia. This takes fauna and flora in account. The caucus mountains could never support the population needed for the massive aryan invasion.

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Originally Posted by Olavsson

The Hittites didn't speak proto-Indo European, though, but a later linguistic development.

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Where did I say something like that? I said the first and the oldest attested Indo European language was Hittite. And something like "proto Indo European" language was never found no where and was just reconstructed based on the "idea" of linguists how it might have been.