Why should i feel that way ?? You are not the only one who can troll here?Quote:
Originally Posted by Scholarios Chiotis
Later maybe i can learn serbo-croatian and greek why not.
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Why should i feel that way ?? You are not the only one who can troll here?Quote:
Originally Posted by Scholarios Chiotis
Later maybe i can learn serbo-croatian and greek why not.
It is same question and same answer. I see that there are 104 Tosks tested and around 120 Ghegs. Also Tosks have more then one I-haplogroup types and some of them are I1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laberia
I am not that familiar with I2a2 and R1a to be able to analyse this data so fast, someone who is more familiar with these haplos would be able to pull out percentages much faster and i dont have that time nor will now.
Like you see Kelmendasi already managed to find some J1 on that list.
What i can tell you 100 is too small number to make some theories and maps about it also this Eupedia map in first page is for sure representing more then just I2a-Din since you see how much of it is in Sardinia when we know that Sardinian and I2a-din split long time ago so it is not same clade of I2a2. But also we know that almost all of Balkan I2a2 is Dinaric (CTS 10228) meaning they all come out of a single man who lived 2400 years ago around Poland.
I dont know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelmendasi
Was difficult for you to find? Ok, no problem, here it is:Quote:
Originally Posted by Herr Abubu
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scholarios Chiotis
I think it's the code used for Arbereshe peopleQuote:
Originally Posted by Dema
It's great that I was able to find more J1 Albos especially Ghegs
Talking about 1500 years ago and saying ghegs and tosk it doesn’t have much sense you think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herr Abubu
Basically you agree that Albanian speaking individuals are the core of the population that affected all the neighbouring countries as the study says.Or better the one that didn't assimilate throe slavization, hellenisation and latinisation. And the highest levels of IBD sharing that are found in the albanian-speaking individuals are just their link to their assimilated common ancestors.
So they are ilirians epirots dardans ???
E di ate shprehjen e famshme te Edi Rames? "Prisni se s`keni pare gje akoma".Quote:
Originally Posted by Drawing-slim
Why would I bother sifting through the thread to find it when I knew you could do it for me? It's 16.5%. See, you do the menial tasks, I do the thinking. That's how we cooperate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laberia
Nigjo per me gjet haplogrupin mundesh me fut te dhanat e ydna pra numrat te ky http://www.hprg.com/hapest5/hapest5a/hapest5.htm psh edhe djathtas ne kolone te del haplogrupiQuote:
Originally Posted by Laberia
Po duhet me pas kujdes qe te korrespondojne markersat qe merr me vendin ku do ti analizosh. psh DYS393 te DYS393 e parashikuesit e keshtu me rradhe ateher e gjen te sakte se sa jane e si jane se une si besoj fort asaj qe thote ai.
nevgen osht ma i mireQuote:
Originally Posted by ilir
http://www.nevgen.org/
This thread is so full of false data, many can't even differentiate between different I2a clades, yet they feel like they can speak on subject with authority.
Just to get grasp of how big distance is: northern I2a1a split from Sardinian I2a1a 17.000+ years ago, let alone I2a1b here, which split even earlier.
The reason why I2a1b is more common on western Balkans than among northern Slavs is because it got Slavicized after Slavic ethnogenesis. In case it participated in Slavic ethnogenesis, it would be evenly distributed. So there are two possibilites: either it got linguistically Slavicized before, or after coming to Balkans. Geographic distribution of I2a1b and R1a in Yugoslavia (more I2a1b in infertile, mountainous areas, while R1a is dominant in plains) suggests second scenario.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick
BTW that Eupedia article is utterly outdated and nonsensical. There was no I2a1b in SE Europe in Neolithic. It's calculated TMRCA and place of origin don't fit in it, neither do ancient DNA findings, I2a1b-(M423) being found predominantly in northern Mesolithic hunter-gatherers. It all points out to the fact that it came somewhere during Migration Era (5th-6th century).
can you quote from the study? Thanks in advance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herr Abubu
I can't view it because you need some program to open up the files with the figures. Trojet has it, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laberia
To all the guys at Foleja or Albanian bloodlines project I just upgraded to Family finder
Without reading the whole thread I'll just say a few things.
Tosks are not much more ethnically Slavic-derived than Ghegs since they plot (atleast on 23andme) with Ghegs and even show a tendency to plot on the southern end of the Albanian cluster. Even the southern most 'Slavs', the Macedonians and Bulgarians, plot north of Ghegs.
The Slavs that settled in southern Albania from around 600 AD were undifferentiated or 'generic' Slavs, not 'Bulgarians'. Bulgaria as a political entity later encorporated the Slavicized southern Albania. So southern Albania was no more 'Bulgarian' then the territory of modern Serbia was up to Belgrade under the Bulgars. That being said the population of southern Albania prior to Albanian migrations from the north would have been similar to the native-Slavic mixture in Macedonia, southern Epirus etc. I believe the historical record shows that Albanian migrants cleansed a good part of the area of its inhabitants, toponyms remained.
I don't think Slavic ydna is more then than 20 percent, maximimum 25, of southern Albanians, and I think that is VERY generous. If there is indeed that much or more Slavic blood in Tosks then they would also have to be mixed with other groups that would plot a lot more south than Ghegs on their own. Only that would explain where Tosks do plot, but I don't think thats the case given what is known about Bulgarians/Macedonians. It's just unrealistic to say that without Slavic admixture the Tosks would plot a lot more south than they do now. The people in southern Albania before the Slavs showed up were not from Crete or Cyprus.
Genetic ydna studies are likely to produce a good amount of error vs what they are trying to represent. It's like when they test a whole bunch of people from one village or clan that have the same origin. There has to be some ethnographic discernment in these studies for them to relect the real situation. Right now the only group competent enough to give an accurate assessment of the geneto-ethnic situation of the Albanians are the few mods over at the Albanian Bloodlines project at ftdna.
When happened this migration of Albanians from North to South Albania? And how did this Albanians cleansed this slavs? What the historical records say about this?Quote:
Originally Posted by kuqezi
So, basically you are telling me that this retard of your friends, Scholarios has not any idea about the percentage of this famous I2a when he posted this study in this thread with the title: Slavic I2a1 in southern Albania.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herr Abubu
Great. I have no doubt that he is an retard troll.
Samples are low but still indicative what the Vlahs/Aromanians of southern Albania are, and honestly it would be impossible now days to get a bigger sample because in majority they have disintegrated and assimilated. To my opinion they are not the source of I2a. What's interesting though they differ from other Vlah groups and seem to be more similar to us on regards to J2b2 (PH1751?) and R1b-BY611 - perhaps latinized local Illyrians? That would be my best guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xhak Bauër
No, I am telling you that you aren't very good at counting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laberia
And why you didn`t this countings?Quote:
Originally Posted by Herr Abubu
I don't speak retard, be more clear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laberia
It's been a while since I've looked at the details. Probably starting from 1300 AD or even earlier, the migrations were relatively rapid and went straight into the heart of Greece . I think the chronicle of John Musachi mentions the Slavs and their fate in southern Albania. Anyways search 'hammond map albanian migrations' on google images.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laberia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herr Abubu
I think you can understand this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laberia
Abubu i had a question for you http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...=1#post4274060
when you have time, thanks in advance as Laberia say.
Looks like the movie Independence Day. Any scientific paper who prove this? Because there are many questions.Quote:
Originally Posted by kuqezi
Insignificant, only in Opar, read here:Quote:
Originally Posted by kuqezi
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...ka#post4269557
We have discussed here about this maps of Hammond:Quote:
Originally Posted by kuqezi
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...=1#post4173569
Let me quote here Hammond:
The problem i hope to deal with is how did the Albanians get from this remote part of Kurvelesh down to all parts of Greek peninsula and indeed the greek islands....
So according to Hammond this people arrived from Kurvelesh, not from Kelmendi. Well, a little bit strange this Hammond.
Anyway, at least someone with a theory. After many threads and 55 pages in this thread, Scholarios is without a theory.
I just told you and I have done so earlier in the thread, you 5 ft retard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laberia
Quote your post here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herr Abubu
Who's talking about 1.5k years ago? I'm not simply referring to a singular event of Slavs migrating down to the Balkans, I'm talking about Balkan Medieval history.Quote:
Originally Posted by ilir
The study doesn't say what you imply it says. Clearly our neighbouring populations were affected greatly by us, but clearly we were also affected by them. Tosks were affected by the Slavs genetically, they have many times more genetic markers that are completely Slavic in origin. That's as much as I can understand from it because you don't speak English very well and you don't seem very capable of speaking in a logical manner. I'll say it again, Albanians share a lot of IBD with Poles, Tosks have quite a lot of Slavic Y-DNA. I.e., we're not pure, and especially not Tosks.
Do not project your familiar problems on half Albania.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herr Abubu
From the amount of Slavic toponyms you would expect Tosks to plot more north than they do if the Slavs indeed have stayed there. Low Slavic autosomal input supports southern migration of Albanians and massacre/expulsion of Slavs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laberia
The other simple explanation would be what I have suggested some pages on this thread, which is most likely what happened to my opinion going by the evidence we currently poses lingustically and genetically: the assimilated body of Slavs wasn't that large to begin with but only expanded later as Albanians. They simply were not that significant to alter their autosomal profile. I would like to see some of their Family Finder profiles though just to see where they stand in comparison to Ghegs because as you mentioned judging by their 23andme profiles they don't differ much from us, some are even identical to us.Quote:
Originally Posted by kuqezi
From the amount of Slavic toponyms you would expect Tosks to plot more north than they do if the Slavs indeed have stayed there. Low Slavic autosomal input supports southern migration of Albanians and massacre/expulsion of Slavs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laberia
True, also there is evidence that supports the theory on Tosks migrating southwards when the Albanian dialects splitted into Tosk and GhegQuote:
Originally Posted by kuqezi
This is genetic, a genetic theory based on few hundreds persons tested following a methodology that nobody here explain. We were discussing history.Quote:
Originally Posted by kuqezi
Obviously bro, we are the same people as Tosks it's just that they differ in some dialectical and traditional/cultural aspectsQuote:
Originally Posted by Skerdilaid
Bro, Mic Sokoli and Sokol Baci were 110% Albanians, not servs. Their names and surnames don`t make them servs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelmendasi
I was referring to the studyQuote:
Originally Posted by Herr Abubu
The highest levels of IBD sharing are found in the Albanian-speaking individuals (from Albania and Kosovo), an increase in common ancestry deriving from the last 1,500 years. This suggests that a reasonable proportion of the ancestors of modern-day Albanian speakers are drawn from a relatively small, cohesive population that has persisted for at least the last 1,500 years.
It is also interesting to note that the sampled Italians share nearly as much IBD with Albanian speakers as with each other.
I am not talking about pure or not, but you can’t ignore the highest levels of IBD sharing in Europe and the fact that that we affected all our neighbours. We are the first in the list of every neighboring country.
And in our list Poland is in the 13 place.
http://journals.plos.org/plosbiology...o.1001555.s003
You admitted South Slavs were greatly influenced by Albanians genetically,
So are albanians so far, according to the study also descendents of illirians dardans epirots??
I hope this time my english improved a little bit.
Look dude...Quote:
Originally Posted by Laberia
What methodology are you talking about? We have to go with the two scientific studies we have regarding Tosks, which is 104 from Sarno et al 2015 plus 121 from Ferri et al. 2010 for a total of 225 Tosks. They pretty much tell the same story regarding Y-DNA distribution.
Or else, If you don't believe these numbers why don't you test yourself or recruit other Tosks to test so we don't have to rely on these studies and help our project at the same time?
Obviously they were man I never said they weren't all I said is that Tosks diverged from GhegsQuote:
Originally Posted by Laberia
The characteristics of Tosk and Gheg in the treatment of the native and loanwords from other languages are evidence that the dialectal split preceded the Slavic migration to the Balkans..Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelmendasi
When happened this split? This is hard to say. It`s not impossible that this split existed even when the migration of IE people happened.