With your much better "hypothesis" you should be spending your time in academic circles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Padre Organtino
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With your much better "hypothesis" you should be spending your time in academic circles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Padre Organtino
People pay money to see clowns, at least it is entertaining. Much better than you and your trolleys trolling. I like it when you emphasize the AR part, shows how jealous you are. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Padre Organtino
AR AR AR lol
No jealousy here just pity:thumb001:Quote:
Originally Posted by Artaxat
Nah, it's already a consensus among modern scholars. Why waste more effort on proving the obvious?Quote:
Originally Posted by Artaxat
:D how sweet of you, you have so much pity that you spent your time 24/7 for the last few month obsessed with ARmenians....you need a SHrink mateQuote:
Originally Posted by Padre Organtino
ahahaha...so now it's even a consensus :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Padre Organtino
we should declare topic closed, padre had his verdict on it :coffee:
Huh, why are you douchebags so paranoid? None of my recent posts has to do anything neither with or Armenians nor with your bunch of self-loathing retards. I have started writing about Armenians only in reply to an outburst of your "sister". My comments were on Turkish genetics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Artaxat
oh, I didn't see that padre also declared Orangepulp as an Armenian, also there is consensus on this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Padre Organtino
It's science not me. BTW once again an ARmenian has nothing relevant to say on topic and lacking arguments to support his point of view starts personal attacks and insults.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Artaxat
Cluster number ''1''seems to be more ''western'' compared to cluster number ''5'' which is also dominated by Turks, cluster ''5'' seems to be more Iranic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Artaxat
Cluster ''1'' consists of Cappadocia Turks, I got this from humanists post on ABF:
A comment of possible interest to some here, made on Dienekes' blog, regarding the origin of the Turkish samples used in Behar et al. (and other subsequent papers), not to mention, the various open projects, such as David's Eurogenes:
http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/att...1&d=1316247706Quote:
Onur said...
I have been corresponding via email with Mait Metspalu, one the authors of both this paper and the Behar et al. 2010 paper, for some months. In our correspondence Mr. Metspalu informed me that all of the Turkish samples used in this paper are exactly the same samples as all the Turkish samples used in Behar et al. 2010 (19 in total) and, more importantly, that all of the Behar et al. Turks...were sampled from the region of Turkey that is historically known as Cappadocia.
Friday, September 16, 2011 5:48:00 PM
oh...now is insult timeQuote:
Originally Posted by Padre Organtino
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_07VoZXfojo...t+hear+you.jpg
Well, noone's arguing against the fact that Turks and Assyrians are your closest genetic neighbours. As for nationality - it has to do with one's self-identification. She clearly does not see herself as an Armenian. Hence the answer is No.Quote:
Originally Posted by Artaxat
And stop polluting the thread if you have nothing to say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Padre Organtino
http://revolutionarypaideia.files.wo...ore-button.jpg
Yes, you are correct in telling others they should ignore the crap you post.
I understand that one greek also falls into this cluster, but the Assyrian and the Georgian sample is strange. Some more details about these two samples would shed some light on how they are connected.Quote:
Originally Posted by orangepulp
Any idea why all of Behar's sample are from Kappadokia?
Turks matching with Armenians doesn't mean they are Armenians, it just means they are similar genetically, this goes for all West Asian ethnic groups Georgians, Armenians, Turks, Assyrians etc..Quote:
Originally Posted by Padre Organtino
I really don't know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Artaxat
I think Humanist can give us a better explanation about the samples and cluster number ''1''. I match in cluster number ''1'' but my paternal side would be between Lycaonia and Pamphylia, not Cappadocia and maternal side North Eastern.
what about a Turk whose name sounds a bit Armenian and is genetically similar with Armenians. would they be considered Armenian or Turk?Quote:
Originally Posted by orangepulp
maybe because Kappadokia inhabitants did not migrate or mix too much? thus can be representative of local Anatolians?Quote:
Originally Posted by orangepulp
would be good to have access to the publication of Behar's study.
I am similar to Armenians somewhat ( many Turks are) and on 23andme apparently I have a couple of Armenian cousins, which means big probably a 100 years ago we had a similar grandparent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Artaxat
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/820...tivefinder.jpg
Here are mostly European cousins, kinda weird cause I also have a Swedish cousin:
http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/4060/rf3vv.jpg
Being a Turk is not about genetics, a person may not even carry Turkic genes and yet still be a Turk, anybody brought up in Turkish culture can identify as a Turk. We have Kurds who identify as a Kurd and a Turk, a Turkish Kurd basically.
If one feels he should identify as an Armenian cause of his name and genetic mixture then let him, if one feels more affinity with Turks he can call himself a Turk.
Hi Artaxat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Artaxat
The Assyrian who is in cluster #1 has an Armenian grandparent. The Assyrian who is in cluster #5 might have some Iraqi Kurdish ancestry. He is a Chaldean Catholic from Iraq. Many of these folks did not move to the mountains, as some of the "Nestorians" and Orthodox did. They remained in the plains. Many of them speak Arabic as a first language. I posted these two charts on ABF:
Post #1:
http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/...D_assyrian.pngQuote:
The Assyrian individual IBD Z scores. One Assyrian has a known Armenian grandparent (#5).
Among Dodecad populations, Assyrians appear to display the highest IBD Z score average (~4). The Assyrian_D population includes 2 Chaldean Catholics, 3 Syriac Orthodox, 6 "Nestorians," 1 ACOE, and one unidentified affiliation. For a total of 13 participants. Grandparent countries of past or current residence include: Lebanon, Turkey, Iraq, and Iran.
Post #2:
http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/..._avg_IBD_Z.pngQuote:
I posted the individual Assyrian IBD (Identity By Descent) chart yesterday. This is a chart of the Assyrian average IBD Z values with respect to all populations included in the study.
Assyrian 4.04
Armenian 0.08
Kurd -0.09
Iranian -0.16
Cypriot -0.17
Greek -0.21
Turk -0.23
Georgian -0.24
Abkhasian -0.24
Adygei -0.31
N_Ossetian -0.37
Bulgarian -0.40
Romanian -0.48
fastIBD analysis of Iberia, France, Italy, Balkans, Anatolia and European Jews
I am in cluster ''4'' which consists of all 44 Armenian samples and 11 Turks. Cluster ''4'' is dominated by Armenians while cluster ''3'' is by Turks.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-hUvuuWcLzA...tolia_jews.png
Interesting stuff. Im on cluster 9, which is the Portugal and Galicia, Castilla Y Leon cluster and my IBD similarity scores are:Quote:
Originally Posted by orangepulp
Cantabria 1.67
Pais Vasco 1.66
Portuguese 1.44
Aragon 1.17
Castilla Y Leon 1.14
French Basque 1.12
Valencia 1.11
Spaniards 1.05
Galicia is quite low on the list at 0.04
My top IBD similarity scores:
Armenian_D 2.57
Turkish_D 1.52
Turks 1.19
Cypriots 1.19
S_Italian_D 1.12
Bulgarians_Y 1.2
Bulgarian_ D 1.05
Romanians_14 0.95
Romanian_D 0.76
What does IBD stand for?
Identity by DescentQuote:
Originally Posted by orangepulp
...just seen.
According to the last Dienekes graph..... i'm italian by nationality but almost iberian biologically. Ehw...
so which dominates? blood or culture?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hussar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artaxat
True. Nice question. Mine was clearly a joke (with a hint of provokation).
Clearly, the era of genomic (and personal genomic) has opened a door in these years.
Apart the scientific meaning per sč, the progress in this specific field has been a monumental step in the understanding of our own "essence" , allowing us to fill missing points of the conventional history and clarifying finally what and ethnic identity really is.
At present day (in the last year) i've seen a number of different graphs and schemes. In most of them i don't match with a good number of my countrymen.
But on the other side i can't define myself as "iberian".
Simply....science today, show us as we (single individuals) are the result of the most intriguing and unsolvable mix of historical circumstance. A puzzle of elements, each of them added by a different "momentum" of historical course.
Limiting my analysis to this case i think it's reasonable to postulate a close biologic relationship between Celto-Ligurians (ancestral rulers on the western Alps of northwestern Italy) and Celto-Iberians.
Celto-med hybrid populations, gradually latinised culturally.
Do you mean the cluster or the IBD similarity? I think the cluster is more informative.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hussar
For example, portuguese cluster with galicians and castillo-leonese which makes sense historically. On my IBD list galicians are nowhere no be found and my highest scores are cantabrians and basques, which is more dubious.
My Results: DOD 804 IBD
Murcia_1KG 1.79
Sicilian_D 1.39
French_D 1.3
C_Italian_D 1.1
Baleares_1KG 0.86
Galicia_1KG 0.7
Extremadura_1KG 0.61
Portuguese_D 0.46
S_Italian_Sicilian_D 0.44
Castilla_La_Mancha_1KG 0.4
Sephardic_Jews 0.36
North_Italian 0.28
N_Italian_D 0.21
Ashkenazy_Jews 0.21
French 0.05
Spaniards 0.04
Sardinian -0.09
What does this mean?? I have never shown a lot of similarity to Iberian or French populations ??
& I am 100% in #2 (?)
He posted updated calculators:
K7b
0.19% South_Asian
13.62% West_Asian
1.66% Siberian
0.00% African
13.23% Southern
71.25% Atlantic_Baltic
0.05% East_Asian
K12b
6.76% Gedrosia
1.08% Siberian
0.00% Northwest_African
0.12% Southeast_Asian
30.66% Atlantic_Med
47.61% North_European
0.02% South_Asian
0.00% East_African
2.32% Southwest_Asian
0.01% East_Asian
11.41% Caucasus
0.00% Sub_Saharan
For reference
K7a (known as Eurasia 7)
0.00% Sub_Saharan
0.00% West_Asian
72.75% Atlantic_Baltic
23.45% East_Asian
3.79% Southern
0.01% South_Asian
0.00% Siberian
K12a
32.08% Mediterranean
0.01% Far_Asian
0.98% Siberian
47.95% North_European
0.02% South_Asian
0.00% West_African
10.89% Caucasus
5.58% Gedrosia
0.00% East_African
2.34% Southwest_Asian
0.14% Southeast_Asian
0.00% Northwest_African
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commerce & Industry
Aren't you North Atlantid in phenotype by any chance?:cool:
Don't know haven't bothered to get off my ass and take suitable pictures for classification yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Padre Organtino
Posted my belly though http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...=32026&page=11 :P
DOD197(Me)
K7b
South_Asian 0%
West_Asian 9.4%
Siberian 2.4%
African 0%
Southern 4.6%
Atlantic_Baltic 83.7%
I have lower 'Southern'(Nor: 8.6%), 'South_Asian'(Nor: 0.3%) and higher 'Atlantic_Baltic'(Nor: 80.8), 'West_Asian'(Nor: 8.5%), Siberian(Nor: 1.8%) than the Norwegian average.
K12b
Gedrosia 7.8%
Siberian 1%
Northwest_African 0%
Southeast_Asian 0%
Atlantic_Med 31.6%
North_European 58.1%
South_Asian 0%
East_African 0%
Southwest_Asian 0%
East_Asian 0%
Caucasus 1.5%
Sub_Saharan 0%
I have lower 'Gedrosia'(Nor: 8.2%), 'Atlantic_Med'(Nor: 36%) and higher 'North_European'(Nor: 54.7%), 'Caucasus'(Nor: 0.1%) than the Norwegian average.
In K12a Med is now Atlantic Med in K12b
So Norwegians are the least gruzins in Europe? Interesting indeed.:cool::coffee:
What is gruzins?
"gruzin" - Georgian in Russian. I was refering to low Norwegian Caucasus component.
K7b
Southasian 12
WestAsian 24
Siberian 0.7
African 0
Southern 20.9
Atlantic-Baltic 40.1
East Asian 2.4
K12b
Gedrosia 9.7
Siberian 0.4
NorthwestAfrican 1
Southeastasian 1.4
Atlantic Med 20.7
North European 24.3
Southasian 11.3
East African 0
Southwestasian 6.8
East Asian 0.8
Caucasus 23.6
Sub Saharan 0