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Yeah man...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaspias
Target: JohnnyP
Distance: 1.7696% / 1.76958801 | ADC: 0.25x
32.2 Greek_Northern-Thrace
28.8 Romanian_South_Central_Moldova
26.6 Macedonian
9.6 Southwest_Russian
1.6 Belorussian
0.8 Bosnian
0.4 Yemenite_Jewish
Target: JohnnyP
Distance: 2.8565% / 2.85646164 | ADC: 0.5x
58.2 Greek_Northern-Thrace
21.4 Macedonian
11.6 Romanian_South_Central_Moldova
7.8 Bosnian
1.0 Romanian_Botosani
My father's k13 updated with Kaspias references.
Hi Kaspias, what's your opinion?
Target: Father
Distance: 0.3643% / 0.36434400
14.0 Greek_Northern-Thrace(Kaspias)
11.2 Greek_Central Macedonia(Kaspias)
9.8 Swiss_Italian
9.8 Greek_Thessaloniki(Kaspias)
9.2 Greek_Istanbul(Kaspias)
7.6 Belorussian
7.6 Greek_EasternThrace(Kaspias)
7.4 Southwest_Finnish
7.2 Norwegian
5.8 Swiss_German
4.4 Lebanese_Christian
2.4 Cossacks_Kuban
2.2 Yemenite_Jewish
1.2 Latvian
0.2 Greek_Western-Macedonia(Kaspias)
Target: Father
Distance: 1.5525% / 1.55253703 | ADC: 0.25x
83.4 Romanian_Oltenia
8.2 Swiss_Italian
3.6 NorthSwedish
3.2 Yemenite_Jewish
1.2 Montenegrin
0.4 Macedonian_East(Kaspias)
Target: Father
Distance: 2.4751% / 2.47510290 | ADC: 0.5x
88.8 Romanian_Oltenia
10.2 Friuli-VG
0.6 Yemenite_Jewish
0.4 Montenegrin
Target: Father
Distance: 3.1836% / 3.18364571 | ADC: 1x
100.0 Romanian_Oltenia
How can he be more Northern shifted than Oltenia? He didn't even score Eastern Macedonia and Vlach but directly Wallachia. I don't think Aromanians have exact same genetic with Daco-Romanians, this may point a surprising ancestral background.Quote:
Originally Posted by paradox
I can't remember the village of your father, but i remember the two cities he lived. I also remember you said something like there were iron mine. So i made a general investigation on it. I don't know if it will be helpful or not.
Checked the migration movements of Vlachs in Eastern Macedonia, their possible origin, this was what i found:
Presence of them:Quote:
In the same period, most of the men of Nymfaio were supporting their families by working as goldsmiths, tailors, dyers, and transporters. To begin with, they were itinerant craftsmen and artisans, and they gradually established colonies in a number of towns and kefalohoria in Macedonia and beyond, as far as Përmet in southern Albania and Thiva (Thebes) in southern Greece. Many of them, starting off mainly as goldsmiths, developed into enterprising merchants ― dealing mainly in tobacco ― not only in the Balkans but also in Constantinople, Romania, Egypt, and even Sweden. The men working away from home were gradually joined by their families, particularly in the late nineteenth and early twentieth century, forming some noteworthy Nevestian colonies, some small, others quite large, in Florina, Kastoria, Monastir, Edessa, Naoussa, Veria, and Yannitsa, with the largest and most vigorous community being in Thessaloniki. In Eastern Macedonia, they met up with earlier refugees from Nymfaio. With the influx of new migrants from Nymfaio, small but vigorous and well-to-do colonies of, mainly, goldsmiths and tobacco mechants sprang up in Serres, Drama, Prossotsani, Doxato, Kavala, and Xanthi. It must have been through Kavala and Constantinople that the Nevestians forged their connections with Egypt, where they established vigorous, wealthy colonies.
The people of Klissoura already had close connections with the colonies in the Habsburg Empire and Serbia, and that was where they chose to go until the beginning of the twentieth century, establishing rich colonies in Vienna, Budapest, Dresden, Zemun, Belgrade, Pancevo, Nis, Bucharest, Jassy, and Odessa. More than 2,000 families reportedly made their way to these Klissourian colonies, a probably exaggerated figure, but certainly indicative of the magnitude of the migrations from Klissoura. Unlike the inhabitants of the other Vlach villages and settlements in this group, the Klissourians did not disperse as merchants and craftsmen to the towns and kafalohoria of Macedonia (apart from the internal migrants who went to nearby Kastoria, Amyndaio, and Ptolemaïda). During the nineteenth century, Klissoura evolved into a vigorous commercial and light industrial centre and a transit centre that rivalled Kastoria. In its heyday it may have had as many as a thousand houses, with more than a hundred shops and light industrial establishments in its commercial centre. Numerous Vlach caravans, even from other places, such as Veria and Katerini, set out from Klissoura for all the major commercial centres in the Balkans, carrying all kinds of marketable goods. Emigration halved the population between 1870 (6,400 inhabitants) and 1912 (3,000 inhabitants). Most of the Klissourians remained within the Ottoman Empire at this time. From 1890 onwards, they headed in large numbers for Constantinople and Thessaloniki. At the beginning of the twentieth century, the colony in Constantinople comprised about eighty enterprising merchants and craftsmen and a total of 300 souls. A vigorous association named Profitis Ilias was established to help organise the colony better. It was disbanded after 1908, and the most dynamic members moved mainly to Thessaloniki, where the old Klissourian colony played a leading role in the affairs of the Greek Orthodox community. In 1907, the Klissourians set up the Ayios Markos Association. A smaller group, mainly of tobacco merchants, settled in Kavala at this time.
Throughout the nineteenth century, the Blatsiots (from Vlasti), whether descended from the Vlach refugees of 1769 onwards or from Greek-speakers living in Vlasti, continued to maintain their contact with, and to emigrate to, the colonies in the Habsburg Empire, the Danubian Principalities, and Serbia, accompanying the Vlach or Grek caravans heading north across the Danube. The colonies which they established in the towns in Eastern Macedonia in the first half of the nineteenth century grew considerably between the 1860s and the beginning of the twentieth century. During this latter period, those who left Vlasti were migrants, not fugitives, and were members of the merchant and light industrial class, not transhumant stockbreeders. Thus, most of the Blatsiots who went to Thessaloniki, Serres, Kavala, Drama, Constantinople, Egypt, and Romania at this time had almost forgotten the Vlach language.
Quote:
Contrary to the general impression, there have been Vlach associations, societies and fraternities in Greece for many decades now. Some of them are extremely well-established, with an active history stretching back over about a hundred years: for example, the associations of the Vlachs of Olympos, Klissoura and Monastiri in the city of Thessaloniki, and the association of the Vlachs of Samarina in Larissa. It is true that in the years immediately following the war (leaving aside the earlier period) the Greek political scene did not provide a hospitable environment for groups like the Vlachs. Much the same was true, of course, in the other Balkan countries, those behind the so-called Iron Curtain. Nevertheless, from the 1960’s and 1970’s – as the widespread internal migration of the period gradually brought large waves of Vlachs to the major cities, where they established themselves - more and more associations began to be founded, with an interest in the traditions, culture and place of origin of each group. Here in the city, far from their villages and cut off from the traditional way of life they had previously enjoyed, the Vlachs felt a more pressing need to come together and form their own associations. The next big step was taken in the early 1980’s. Post-war democracy in Greece had now come of age. A significant number of Vlach associations came together to form a second-tier organisation, the ‘Panhellenic Federation of Vlach Cultural Associations’, which now numbers 89 members, associations from all over Greece, from Prossotsani in Eastern Macedonia to Paleomanina in western Mainland Greece. The word Vlach now began to be heard more and more frequently. The Vlach Federation is indisputably the largest of its kind in the Balkans, and still growing; there are at least 25 other associations waiting to become members, and new ones are constantly being established in all parts of the country.
Quote:
In the nineteenth century, both the Vlach villages with a commercial, light industrial, and ‘urban’ economic basis and those that were more directly involved in various forms of stockbreeding were large prosperous communities, at least in comparison with the neighbouring villages and estates dwelt in and worked by the smallholders and tenant farmers of other linguistic groups. And wherever the Vlachs cohabited with other groups, they usually held high positions in the local economic, social, and cultural class system. There were exceptions, of course, such as the Vlach villages in Moglena and the hut settlements of the exclusively nomadic Vlach stockbreeders. The interest of many researchers has focused on the pastoral Vlachs, and they have rather neglected the equally numerous, but settled, merchants and craftsmen. One of the direct effects of this has been to reinforce the stereotypical misperceptions about the Vlachs. The examples of Vlach communities. in and around such Central and Eastern Macedonian towns as Katerini, Servia, Veria, Naoussa, Edessa, Aridaia, Gevgelija, Serres, Iraklia, Alistrati, Nevrokop (Goce Delčev), Prossotsani, Drama, Hryssoupoli, and especially Thessaloniki come as a great surprise to most people and show how little they know about who the Vlachs really are.
In my opinion, there are two options for your father: Gramostian or Daco-Romanian. Highlander Vlach sample should be Gramostian, but as you see your father is very Northern compared to him. Is it a result of a Daco-Romanian migration or mixing with other ethnicities?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...-languages.png
I searched who were living in Eastern Macedonia before the Balkan Wars. I saw that there was a Bulgarian community who identify as Marvaks.(Мървашко)
Quote:
Мърва̀шко или Марва̀шко е историко-географска област в Югоизточна Македония, днес разположена на териториите на Гърция (Егейска Македония) и България (Пиринска Македония). Основният поминък на мървашките села е бил рударство и железодобив, с които се свързва произходът на името Мървашко.
The main livelihood of the Muravak villages was mining and iron mining, which are associated with the origin of the name Murvashko.
Oltenians aren't very northern plotting. a lot of Bulgarians are more north than them. they speak a pre-Slavic language after all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaspias
What type of Greek is this sample? Greek_Western-Macedonia
I am closest to Macedonian/Greek samples than Romanian :)
Distance to: Impaler
8.28440704 Greek_Western-Macedonia
8.58049532 Macedonian_Southeast
8.94314262 Greek_Central-Macedonia
9.62560290 North_Macedonian
9.62869605 Kosovo_Albanian
9.76831613 Vlach_North-Macedonia-Highlander
10.15002463 Bulgarian
10.32157934 Romanian_Oltenia
10.41340962 Vlach_North-Macedonia
10.52220034 Macedonian_Northwest
10.87855689 Macedonian_East
10.95321871 Greek_Thessaly
10.97552172 Macedonian
11.12095882 GR_Peloponese
11.22323928 Greek_Northern-Thrace
11.33592519 Greek_Thessaloniki
11.38153329 Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-Central
11.41358693 GR_Macedonia
11.51306215 Greek_Eastern-Macedonia
11.58537440 Vlach_Central-Macedonia
11.72229500 Romanian_Muntenia
11.83096361 Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-East
12.06858929 Montenegrin
12.24965306 Macedonian_Central
12.34091974 Romanian_Transylvania
From FlorinaQuote:
Originally Posted by Impaler
and Greek_Northern-Thrace is from ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaspias
Ivaylovgrad, BulgariaQuote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyP
My father updated, looks super accurate :thumb001:
27.6 Croat_Split
24.2 Slovenian
21.6 Hungarian
13.8 Bosniak_Tuzla
10.6 Romanian_Transylvania
1.6 Romanian_Muntenia
0.6 Dai
64.0 Croat_Split
23.6 Hungarian
10.8 Slovenian
1.6 Bosniak_Tuzla
Greek from Ivaylovgrad?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaspias