Is West Asian a European component?

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Originally Posted by chwarae

People, you should forget all these old components: ancient DNA made them obsolete just before Christmas.

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According to who?

Near east today is not near east of yesteryear. I would not assume its origin is in the near east, most of anatolia was depopulated several times.

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Originally Posted by Solin

As usual more non-sense from you. Caucasus is not the same as West Asian when it comes to components at least on Dodecad. Both are close to European ones, but two of them are not the same. Caucasus is a completely artificial component. It is a mix of "Southern" and West Asian if I am not mistaken. You posted K12b Dodeacd spreadsheet without posting K7b one because K12b and K7b calculators are interchangable in a sense that what you get on K7b will help you to interprete your K12b results.

For example
Oetzi has ~20% Caucasus on K12b and ~0% West Asian on K7b. Since the
Caucasus component is West Asian + Southern, this means that his
"Caucasus" admixture is due to the "Southern" and not to the "West
Asian" part meaning that Greeks would be less than 50% "non-European" judging by your spreadsheet, but probably not that much less.

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Look everyone, another moron who doesn't understand the ancestral clusters in ADMIXTURE calculators. West Asian is a composite component of Gedrosia+Caucasus. Otzi is 20% Caucasus, because Otzi was an early Neolithic farmer genius. The early agriculturalists were rich in the Mediterranean component, which also originated in the Middle East. The Caucasus component is a result of a later expansion of farmers. "Southern" is a conglomeration of two components, Southwest Asian and Mediterranean, it is not Caucasus or Gedrosia.

So yes, Greeks are still partly Non-European.

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Originally Posted by Melonhead

Near east today is not near east of yesteryear. I would not assume its origin is in the near east, most of anatolia was depopulated several times.

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Near Easterners are still much more genetically diverse than European even today, genetic diversity can only be attained through an accumulation of mutations over time. It doesn't matter if the Near East today is not the same as yesterday, no human population today is the same as the one that it's descended from. Near Easterners, particularly the ethnic minorities are the best proxies we currently have determining the origin of early European genetic history.

Do you honestly think the Europeans of today, are the same as the ones from the Mesolithic? If so, maybe you need to take a closer look at the Europeans who have been tested with the EEF/WHG/ANE calculator. EEF is the component that's representative of the earliest European farmers, who were a mixture of Near Easterners and WHG.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrousMandaru

Do you have a problem with that, if so, allow me to give you a late Christmas present.

http://img0.etsystatic.com/001/0/584...kl1.jpg?ref=l2

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What about anything I have ever said would cause you think I have a problem with that?


And Real Christmas is next week...

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Originally Posted by ZephyrousMandaru

Europeanized? Give me a fucking break, it still originated in the Middle East. Their paternal haplogroups would still ultimately be East African in origin, so cry me a river.

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We can have African roots, Middle Eastern, West Asian so what? Aren't all Europeans outsiders? We have Europeanized, having white natural skin colour, Euro-Mediterranean Hellenic facial features, Alpine and admixed mith Dinaric, mostly dark brown straight and wavy hairs, mostly brown and light mixed eyes, mostly straight & Alpine noses etc, etc, etc. Aren't we Europeans according to you? Take care, we have nothing to do with your Asian kind. We say we are Europeans and we are Europeans. Period.

Greeks Cluster Genetically with other Europeans
http://hellas2010.proboards.com/thre...ally-europeans

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Originally Posted by Energia

Saying West Asian component is non Euro therefore labelling any Greek, Italian or wichever European who has it as foreigner, is like saying a Turk who's born on the European side of Istanbul isn't a real Turkish...

Europe doesn't end on Gibraltar and Istanbul, these are mere geographical conventional terms, in reality you see clines and clines...
otherwise tell me why I should consider West Asian alien but haplogroup N European?while it's much more spread in Siberia than Europe?

How about call it South East Europe component instead of West Asian?:rolleyes:

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Because what matters is autosomal DNA.

Haplogroup N while present in Scandinavia at 30- 65% makes up only 2 - 15% of their genes. Haplogroup N by the they arrived in the Urals were more european looking than siberian

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Originally Posted by ZephyrousMandaru

Considering the fact, that we don't have WHG related ancestry.

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Who or what do you mean by 'we'?

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Originally Posted by ZephyrousMandaru

I wouldn't snidely dismiss as being "Dienekes' wet dream/ultimate fantasy land."

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Again, dismissive or 'snide' of what? Its entrance into Europe strictly during the Bronze Age? Are you sure you understood what I meant?

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Originally Posted by ZephyrousMandaru

Regardless how long it's been present in Europe, what we know for sure is that it did not emerge in Europe.

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No kidding...

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Originally Posted by orangepulp

Spreadsheet:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...rive_web#gid=5

I didn't deny Greeks European identity. I was talking in the genetic sense that Greeks are 50% none Europeans according to Dodecad K12b. The objective of this thread was not to put Greeks on the spot light but to prove West Asian is not a European component. Some people were classifying West Asian as European due to its abundance in Southern Europe. Just because West Asian is significant in Southern European populations it doesn't make it a European component.

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Only some greeks have 50% non-european, most have 37% and some have less than 30%.

Greeks cluster closer to Europeans which is the same for Italian this is different to Turks of Turkey and Middle easterners who cluster to West Asian.

I don't even know if the East Med and the Gedrosia/Caucasus components can be considered middle eastern, considering that North Euros score 10-20% of that.