Serbian autosomal DNA #2

Serb with full ancestry from Herzegovina. He's paternally related to Vuk Drašković:

Spoiler!

Code:

Kit AK8265884 Admix Results (sorted): # Population Percent 1 Baltic 27.34 2 North_Atlantic 27.19 3 West_Med 18.85 4 East_Med 14.93 5 West_Asian 8.09 6 Red_Sea 1.69 7 Siberian 1.16 8 Northeast_African 0.57 9 Oceanian 0.13 10 South_Asian 0.03 Single Population Sharing: # Population (source) Distance 1 Serbian 3.24 2 Romanian 5.55 3 Bulgarian 7.97 4 Moldavian 8.28 5 Hungarian 9.17 6 Croatian 10 7 Austrian 11.42 8 East_German 13.03 9 Greek_Thessaly 15.64 10 West_German 16.05 11 North_Italian 16.12 12 Ukrainian_Lviv 16.59 13 French 16.76 14 South_Polish 16.95 15 South_Dutch 17.39 16 Ukrainian 17.74 17 Tuscan 18.2 18 Portuguese 18.96 19 Spanish_Galicia 19.17 20 Spanish_Cataluna 19.89 Mixed Mode Population Sharing: # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance 1 50.6% Ukrainian + 49.4% Tuscan @ 1.65 2 64.8% Croatian + 35.2% Tuscan @ 1.85 3 52.3% Ukrainian_Lviv + 47.7% Tuscan @ 2.18 4 66.7% Moldavian + 33.3% North_Italian @ 2.24 5 94.4% Serbian + 5.6% Sardinian @ 2.28 6 55.9% Tuscan + 44.1% Russian_Smolensk @ 2.49 7 61.2% Tuscan + 38.8% Lithuanian @ 2.49 8 91.6% Serbian + 8.4% Southwest_French @ 2.52 9 57.3% North_Italian + 42.7% Southwest_Russian @ 2.53 10 57.8% North_Italian + 42.2% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.54 11 51.8% South_Polish + 48.2% Tuscan @ 2.55 12 62.2% Croatian + 37.8% North_Italian @ 2.57 13 56.4% Tuscan + 43.6% Estonian_Polish @ 2.57 14 53.1% Tuscan + 46.9% Polish @ 2.6 15 54.2% Tuscan + 45.8% Southwest_Russian @ 2.64 16 92.3% Serbian + 7.7% Spanish_Cantabria @ 2.66 17 95% Serbian + 5% French_Basque @ 2.68 18 92.9% Serbian + 7.1% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.76 19 93.7% Serbian + 6.3% Spanish_Aragon @ 2.77 20 93% Serbian + 7% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.77

Quote:

Originally Posted by CommonSense

On the other hand, in Kotor, Tivat and Heceg Novi the situation is completely different and the larger part of the catholic community in those municipalities has been successfully croatised.

Crostised? These towns have Croats since forever. Croatian saint Leopold Mandić is from Herceg Novi. These towns had nothing to do with Montenegro until post WW2.
Their culture, architecture and people are continuation of southern Croatia.

Herceg Novi today is settled with mountain Serbs, not even Montenegrins.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stearsolina

Crostised? These towns have Croats since forever. Croatian saint Leopold Mandić is from Herceg Novi. These towns had nothing to do with Montenegro until post WW2.
Their culture, architecture and people are continuation of southern Croatia.

Herceg Novi today is settled with mountain Serbs, not even Montenegrins.

Those towns have never been a part of any Croatian state, not even the one formed in 1941 :biggrin: On the other hand all of them were always part of and closely connected to the local Serbian principalities, most notably the kingdom of Raška. The cultural similarity with other coastal adriatic towns stems from the fact that they're all Slavic-speaking catholics. I'm sure those from Bar aren't particularly different either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CommonSense

Those towns have never been a part of any Croatian state, not even the one formed in 1941 :biggrin: On the other hand all of them were always part of and closely connected to the local Serbian principalities, most notably the kingdom of Raška. The cultural similarity with other coastal adriatic towns stems from the fact that they're all Slavic-speaking catholics. I'm sure those from Bar aren't particularly different either.

It's a nonsense, Croats in Kotar Bay are well documented by sources foreign and domestic already in 16th and 17th century. One thing is certain, they are same people as are Croats in Dubrovnik region culturally and ethnically.
Neither did they ever felt connected to orthodox Slavs in the mountains.

Now you could to prove prove they descend from medieval Serbian tribes but that will be difficult since migration of Serbs on the Balkans is hardly provable with genetics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stearsolina

It's a nonsense, Croats in Kotar Bay are well documented by sources foreign and domestic already in 16th and 17th century. One thing is certain, they are same people as are Croats in Dubrovnik region culturally and ethnically.
Neither did they ever felt connected to orthodox Slavs in the mountains.

Now you could to prove prove they descend from medieval Serbian tribes but that will be difficult since migration of Serbs on the Balkans is hardly provable with genetics.

Literally the only thing connecting them to Croats is the pseudohistorical claim that Doclea (Duklja) was part of a land called "Red Croatia". And do you really think these people always lived lived as catholics around the coast and have no connections to the hinterland? A simple Y-DNA or autosomal study could easily prove which claim is true. The catholics from Bar are also unanimously referred to as "Croats" in Croatian sources, but as we can see even the average Romanian is closer genetically :rolleyes:

....

Quote:

Originally Posted by CommonSense

Literally the only thing connecting them to Croats is the pseudohistorical claim that Doclea (Duklja) was part of a land called "Red Croatia". And do you really think these people always lived lived as catholics around the coast and have no connections to the hinterland? A simple Y-DNA or autosomal study could easily prove which claim is true. The catholics from Bar are also unanimously referred to as "Croats" in Croatian sources, but as we can see even the average Romanian is closer genetically :rolleyes:

Russian count Tolstoj who traveled east Adriatic coast in 17th century gave pretty detailed description of the area. Croats who were sailors lived in coastal towns while Serbs who led warrior lifestyle lived in the mountains above and were moving towards the coast, later adopting Croatian dress and customs. Autosomal study can't prove more than that they are mix of Slavs and Vlachs.

Problem with Serbs is that ydna of modern Serbs does not bear strong connections to east Germany and west of Czech Republic, so in my opinion Serbian tribe who came to Balkans wasn't big neither influential genetically.
Do modern Croats descend only from Croatian tribe? Ofcourse not.

But based on what we have so far, our ydna connection to the Carpathian region is very clear, while same can't be said for Serbs and their ancestral homeland.

My match from Gedmatch.
Surname Dimić.

Димић – Дивосело, Госпић, Д. Лапац, Острвица, В. Попина, Прљево (Зрмања)

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 33.19
2 West_Med 18.12
3 North_Atlantic 17.89
4 East_Med 17.69
5 West_Asian 9.71
6 Red_Sea 1.76
7 Oceanian 1.09
8 East_Asian 0.37
9 Siberian 0.18

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 9.07
2 Bulgarian 9.27
3 Romanian 9.81
4 Serbian 10
5 Croatian 11.7
6 Hungarian 15.24
7 Ukrainian_Lviv 16.67
8 Greek_Thessaly 16.82
9 Ukrainian 17.59
10 South_Polish 18.22
11 Austrian 19.27
12 Southwest_Russian 19.78
13 East_German 20.04
14 Ukrainian_Belgorod 20.05
15 Polish 21.07
16 Russian_Smolensk 22.1
17 Estonian_Polish 22.43
18 Tatar 23.19
19 Belorussian 23.27
20 Central_Greek 23.46

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 68.4% Ukrainian + 31.6% Cyprian @ 5.15
2 76.3% Bulgarian + 23.7% Erzya @ 5.71
3 62.7% Estonian_Polish + 37.3% Cyprian @ 5.72
4 54.5% Greek_Thessaly + 45.5% Southwest_Russian @ 5.74
5 54.9% Greek_Thessaly + 45.1% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 5.8
6 59.8% Greek_Thessaly + 40.2% Erzya @ 5.84
7 54% Central_Greek + 46% Lithuanian @ 5.84
8 54.6% Southwest_Russian + 45.4% Central_Greek @ 5.85
9 57.7% Lithuanian + 42.3% Cyprian @ 5.87
10 70% Ukrainian_Lviv + 30% Cyprian @ 5.88
11 62.4% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 37.6% Algerian_Jewish @ 5.9
12 62.9% Greek_Thessaly + 37.1% Lithuanian @ 5.9
13 71.7% Ukrainian + 28.3% Samaritan @ 5.94
14 72.6% Bulgarian + 27.4% Southwest_Russian @ 5.95
15 72.3% Ukrainian + 27.7% Lebanese_Christian @ 5.96
16 51.2% Estonian_Polish + 48.8% Central_Greek @ 5.99
17 63.1% Russian_Smolensk + 36.9% Cyprian @ 6
18 62.8% Southwest_Russian + 37.2% Algerian_Jewish @ 6.01
19 79.1% Bulgarian + 20.9% Lithuanian @ 6.02
20 73.1% Bulgarian + 26.9% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 6.04

Updated K13
Distance to: Dimić
7.34616226 Moldova_average
7.62430980 Serb_Serbia_South
7.68426314 Moldova_South
7.76853268 Moldova_Centre
8.11608280 Serb_Herzegovina
8.27299825 Serb
8.30440847 Serb_Serbia_Central
8.30767115 Serb_Bosnia
8.37197109 Bulgaria_Northwestern
8.50578627 Serb_Serbia_Vojvodina
8.53304166 Romania_Maramures
8.57709741 Bosniak
8.65015029 Serb_Croatia
8.80435688 Pomak_Bulgaria
8.98503756 Romania_Moldavia_North
9.00451553 Moldova_North
9.17427926 Romania_average
9.18822616 Romania_Banat
9.20201065 Montenegrin
9.22038502 Serb_Serbia_West
9.39061233 Pomak_Greece
9.56513983 Romania_Dobruja
9.56727234 Romania_Moldavia_South
9.76182872 Romania_Wallachia
9.78368540 Romania_Muntenia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dušan

My match from Gedmatch.
Surname Dimić.

Димић – Дивосело, Госпић, Д. Лапац, Острвица, В. Попина, Прљево (Зрмања)

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 33.19
2 West_Med 18.12
3 North_Atlantic 17.89
4 East_Med 17.69
5 West_Asian 9.71
6 Red_Sea 1.76
7 Oceanian 1.09
8 East_Asian 0.37
9 Siberian 0.18

The North Atlantic is incredibly low, well below 20%! Which company did he test with?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dušan

My match from Gedmatch.
Surname Dimić.

Димић – Дивосело, Госпић, Д. Лапац, Острвица, В. Попина, Прљево (Зрмања)

that's where his ancestry is from, or where the surname appears?