Ancient Egyptians on GEDmatch

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Originally Posted by Gilgamesh900

Again, it's not representatives to claim that these busts are how the Egyptians look like in general or originally. They could have been very similar to Somalis or the 7abesh or east Africa. Anyway, fuck Egypt right in the fucking ass.

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You think this Old Kingdom mummy bust looks more like an East African than a modern Egyptian, such as a Copt?

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...1d6c4199c2.jpg

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Originally Posted by Isleño

Post the quotes that say ONLY they can take on Greco-traditions if they were related by marriage or by blood. Unless you have these quotes that say ONLY, it's speculation.

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Go and read Eusebius, Perpetration for the Gospel. A Hellenist was one who worshiped the Greek Gods by their Greek names and that and only that. Only those who were of Greek decent worshiped the Greek Gods by their Greek names since the Greek religion was one of Ancestor Worship and the Gods were their ancestors. The Jews worshiped their own Gods such as Elyon, El and Jehovah by their Hebrew/Phoenician names, and the Egyptians their own Gods such as Ra and Thoth by their Egyptian names. No one worshiped anyone else's Gods by anyone else's names unless these people were descended from people who were married to Greeks. Instead they associated them with their own Gods, and worshiped them by their own names. All of Eusebius, Perpetration for the Gospel supports what I have said.

The Egyptians stubbornly refused to abandon their supertitions and even derided people who did not follow their customs. They never adopted Greek or Roman customs unless they were related to them.

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Originally Posted by Gilgamesh900

Can't say but we need to sequence more mummies from the early days of Egypt to find out for sure.

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Of course, but to just believe in speculation is crazy. Especially after you've been on a mission as of lately to prove the Ancient Egyptians were not black. You seem to be having second thought. Have you been letting afrocentrists get to you? The Shuenemann study showed continuity through the New Kingdom through the Ptolemaic and Roman periods. The New Kingdom was before Greco-Roman immigration. Surely you understand what this means right?

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Originally Posted by Raine

Go and read Eusebius, Perpetration for the Gospel. A Hellenist was one who worshiped the Greek Gods by their Greek names and that and only that. Only those who were of Greek decent worshiped the Greek Gods by their Greek names since the Greek religion was one of Ancestor Worship and the Gods were their ancestors. The Jews worshiped their own Gods such as Elyon, El and Jehovah by their Hebrew/Phoenician names, and the Egyptians their own Gods such as Ra and Thoth by their Egyptian names. No one worshiped anyone else's Gods by anyone else's names unless these people were descended from people who were married to Greeks. Instead they associated them with their own Gods, and worshiped them by their own names. All of Eusebius, Perpetration for the Gospel supports what I have said.

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Post the quote. Otherwise we can only assume it's speculation.

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Originally Posted by Isleño

Of course, but to just believe in speculation is crazy. Especially after you've been on a mission as of lately to prove the Ancient Egyptians were not black. You seem to be having second thought. Have you been letting afrocentrists get to you? The Shuenemann study showed continuity through the New Kingdom through the Ptolemaic and Roman periods. The New Kingdom was before Greco-Roman immigration. Surely you understand what this means right?

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I was thinking about what the ancient Egyptians were really like and things didn't add up as what I thought they were. The cranial and the limb measurements are much more similar to the peoples of southern Sudan than to the people of the near east and etc. The New Kingdom might have experienced more immigration from the middle east which is why Egyptians today cluster more closer to the middle east than to North Africans like Berbers and etc.

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Originally Posted by Gilgamesh900

I was thinking about what the ancient Egyptians were really like and things didn't add up as what I thought they were. The cranial and the limb measurements are much more similar to the peoples of southern Sudan than to the people of the near east and etc. The New Kingdom might have experienced more immigration from the middle east which is why Egyptians today cluster more closer to the middle east than to North Africans like Berbers and etc.

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But that's just speculation.

"Ancient Egyptians as a whole generally exhibit intermediate body breadths relative to higher and lower latitude populations, with Lower Egyptians possessing wider body breadths, as well as lower brachial and crural indices, compared to Upper Egyptians and Upper Nubians. This may suggest that Egyptians are closely related to circum-Mediterranean and/or Near Eastern groups, but quickly developed limb length proportions more suited to their present very hot environments. These results may also reflect the greater plasticity of limb length compared to body breadth.

... It can be seen that previous stature estimation methods tend to overestimate Egyptian stature for both sexes.It can be seen that previous stature estimation methods tend to overestimate Egyptian stature for both sexes. The present studys stature estimates (bolded) are about 1-3 cm less than that of other studies for the same time periods, with an average 1.5 cm difference. New Kingdom pharaoh males may have been taller because of their higher status, however Robins and Shute (1983) used Trotter and Glesers (1958) equations for American Blacks to estimate their statures is the mean using regression formulae for the femur). Raxter et al. (2008) showed that although ancient Egyptians proportions are closer to American Blacks than they are to American Whites, they are not identical. Stature regression equations derived from American Black populations may therefore not be appropriate to estimate the statures of ancient Egyptians.

...The fact that limb proportions in ancient Egyptians are somewhat more “tropical” may reflect the greater lability of limb length compared to body breadth. The results may also suggest that Egyptians are closely related to circum-Mediterranean and/or Near Eastern groups and have retained those body breadths acquired earlier in time, but quickly developed limb length proportions more suited to their present very hot environments. The present results for bi-iliac breadth are also consistent with various genetic studies that have found modern Egyptians to have close affinities to Middle and Near Easterners (Manni et al., 2002; Arredi et al., 2004; Shepard and Herrera, 2006; Rowold et al., 2007) and Southern Europeans/Mediterranean groups (Capelli et al., 2006). Some of these authors suggested their results may have been associated with a diffusion from the Near East during the expansion of early food-producing societies (Arredi et al., 2004; Rowold et al., 2007)....MK, NK, and Roman-Byzantine Nubian males exhibit greater stature variation than their Egyptian counterparts from the same periods, with Nubian males possessing more variation compared to Nubian females. The greater variation in Nubian males may be indicative of greater in-migration of and intermarriage with foreign males. (Raxter; 2011)

http://scholarcommons.usf.edu/cgi/vi...00&context=etd

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Originally Posted by Gilgamesh900

I was thinking about what the ancient Egyptians were really like and things didn't add up as what I thought they were. The cranial and the limb measurements are much more similar to the peoples of southern Sudan than to the people of the near east and etc. The New Kingdom might have experienced more immigration from the middle east which is why Egyptians today cluster more closer to the middle east than to North Africans like Berbers and etc.

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This is what Mathilda had to say on the subject of limb proportions (Ancient Egyptian matches modern Egyptian):

https://mathildasanthropologyblog.wo...ians-compared/

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Originally Posted by Isleño

There is truth in this you quote. But we must also acknowledge that during Greco-Roman periods, Greek and Roman practices were accepted and practiced by a wide portion of the entire population, including indigenous populations. Greco-Roman traditions were often held in high regard and were considered desirable by indigenous populations. Shuenemann et al. notes this in the aforementioned study we've discussed here. It's quotes as such:

"On the one hand, the interpretation of literary and archaeological sources is often complicated by selective representation and preservation and the fact that markers of foreign identity, such as, for example, Greek or Latin names and ethnics, quickly became ‘status symbols’ and were adopted by natives and foreigners alike"

In the information you quoted above, we can see that Greco-Roman mummy portraits were popular all over Egypt and not just with particular Greco-Romans found in Fayum:

"Subsequent excavations at sites such as Fag el-Gamus, el-Hibeh, Antinoopolis, Akhmim, and most recently Marina el-Alamein suggest that mummy portraits actually were known throughout much of Egypt, so that the term "Fayum portraits" is no longer valid."


So although a Greco-Roman portrait could indeed be indicative of a Greco-Roman grave, it's not exclusive to this and could also be indicative of an indigenous Egyptian grave, possibly an upper class person, but probably not pharaonic royals.

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Uh clearly they arent egyptians. Those are greeks and romans. You are being rediculous. In fact you are giving egyptians credit where its something a greek or roman did. those potraits arent native Egyptian. Those are roman greek, the tradition and art style is like that too. None of the pre greek/roman occupation era of ancient egyptian wall paintings are done in similar manner. Use common sense man. You are better than that

Post some fayum roman pictures of them in traditional egyptian pharaonic attire. with them holding a Egyptian scepter.
but instead you find them in roman garbs and greek wreaths.
https://thegoodcatanddog.files.wordp...aoh-t12459.jpg

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Originally Posted by Isleño

You think this old kingdom Egyptian was black?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._Nofret_03.jpg

You have done a 180 degree turn and are going against what you posted in earlier threads.

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Looks mixed with black. Maybe quadroon - mullata of east SSA mixture
the skin is just light skinned

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Originally Posted by Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin

Those are greek paintings of greeks/romans ruling Egypt. Look at the paintings art style for goodness sakes. But your wiki link even tells us this

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No they weren't. Check you own source:

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Under Greco-Roman rule, Egypt hosted several Greek settlements, mostly concentrated in Alexandria, but also in a few other cities, where Greek settlers lived alongside some seven to ten million native Egyptians.[10] Faiyum's earliest Greek inhabitants were soldier-veterans and cleruchs (elite military officials) who were settled by the Ptolemaic kings on reclaimed lands.[11][12] Native Egyptians also came to settle in Faiyum from all over the country, notably the Nile Delta, Upper Egypt, Oxyrhynchus and Memphis, to undertake the labor involved in the land reclamation process, as attested by personal names, local cults and recovered papyri.[13] It is estimated that as much as 30 percent of the population of Faiyum was Greek during the Ptolemaic period, with the rest being native Egyptians.[14]

The portraits represent native Egyptians, some of whom had adopted Greek or Latin names, then seen as ‘status symbols’.[15][16][17][18] Victor J. Katz notes that "most modern studies conclude that the Greek & Egyptian communities coexisted with little mutual influence".[19] Anthony Lowsted has written extensively on the scope of Apartheid that separated the 2 communities during the Hellenistic, Roman & Byzantine period.[20]

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