Origin of E-V13

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Originally Posted by Voskos

https://hamitic.files.wordpress.com/...hamitics33.jpg

https://hamitic.wordpress.com/

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Hamitic is E-Z827 homie. We wuz speakin proto-hamitic. Gotta respect and represent the big daddy E-M78 that made it all happen.

Verteba Cave (Cucuteni-Trypillian)
descrizione
E-M78 (6000-5600 ybp)

Was the cucuteni sample E-M78 or not? I heard a member mention it was E-Z827 but this site says he was E-M78 can anyone post source I can't find it anywhere. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Daos777

Many E-M78 samples among other E clades found in Neolithic French Michelsberg culture. The only Neolithic culture so far that had an abundance of E in it and not just a few outliers like in balkan Neolithic cultures that were predominately G, and I2 (Besides cardial). Yet we think of Balkans as home of E-V13. Could've E-V13 had an east migration from western Europe? The oldest European E-V13 sample is in Spain after all. Anyways here are the sources:

On the map:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer...6135984312&z=7

It was from the samples of these two recent French papers:
https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/22/eaaz5344
https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/22/eaaz5344

Check table 1:
https://www.pnas.org/content/suppl/2...DCSupplemental

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The popular I-Y3120 or Dinaric subclade, which accounts for over 99% of I2a in Eastern Europe comes from a backward migration from the West, so who knows. Anything is possible, especially given this precedent, but I also know next to nothing about the phylogenetics of E-V13.
http://scaledinnovation.com/gg/snpTracker.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daos777

Verteba Cave (Cucuteni-Trypillian)
descrizione
E-M78 (6000-5600 ybp)

Was the cucuteni sample E-M78 or not? I heard a member mention it was E-Z827 but this site says he was E-M78 can anyone post source I can't find it anywhere. Thanks.

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https://i.imgur.com/5PqZtQR.png

Seems to be E-Z830.

https://haplogroup.info/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Z830/
https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ame=E-CTS10298

imo the lack of ancient E-V13 samples suggest that historically it was not very widespread but the few V13 men were able to expand as a result of Indo-European expansion. The Glinoe sample fits very well with the TMRCA of E-V13.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daos777

Many E-M78 samples among other E clades found in Neolithic French Michelsberg culture. The only Neolithic culture so far that had an abundance of E in it and not just a few outliers like in balkan Neolithic cultures that were predominately G, and I2 (Besides cardial). Yet we think of Balkans as home of E-V13. Could've E-V13 had an east migration from western Europe? The oldest European E-V13 sample is in Spain after all. Anyways here are the sources:

On the map:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer...6135984312&z=7

It was from the samples of these two recent French papers:
https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/22/eaaz5344
https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/22/eaaz5344

Check table 1:
https://www.pnas.org/content/suppl/2...DCSupplemental

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Have they been tested downstream? If not, and if they turn out to be E-V13, then it could very well be possible that they migrated eastwards.

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Originally Posted by Halgurd

Have they been tested downstream? If not, and if they turn out to be E-V13, then it could very well be possible that they migrated eastwards.

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No, but the yDNA distribution at the Salauger site was 55% I2 and 45% E. Maybe they returned together to Eastern Europe and after some time became each other's arch nemesis, one clan took the name of Serbs and the other one of Albanians :lol: .

https://i.imgur.com/5xeG1vX.png

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Originally Posted by Ion Basescul

No, but the yDNA distribution at the Salauger site was 55% I2 and 45% E. Maybe they returned together to Eastern Europe and after some time became each other's arch nemesis, one clan took the name of Serbs and the other one of Albanians :lol: .

https://i.imgur.com/5xeG1vX.png

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Thats crazy there is one E-L168, directly ancestral to V13.

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Originally Posted by Halgurd

Have they been tested downstream? If not, and if they turn out to be E-V13, then it could very well be possible that they migrated eastwards.

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I mean given the ages of the samples nothing disproves a east to west migration yet because that cardial sample is about 8,000 years old and these samples are around 6,000 +- 500. It's just weird how the frequency of E-M78 is so high in this culture compared to balkan and other neolithic samples. And we even have more E-M78 samples in Hungary compared to balkans.

The main problem is we still don't know if E-M78 was assimilated in Europe or brought by Cardial culture because we have 0 E-M78 samples from the proposed Cardial homeland. If any E-M78 ancestral to E-V13 is EVER found in levant I would be less skeptical about this theory.

Also, the Spanish sample is also around 7,500-8,000 years old and I can't find the source for it so if you guys have it please post it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Halgurd

Thats crazy there is one E-L168, directly ancestral to V13.

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xL618 means that they tested for L618, but it was negative