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11-29-2023, 08:28 AM
Dušan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scarface F

I am adding more Balkanic samples. By that I mean something from early medieval and late antiquity. Do you have anything from Serbia or Bulgaria you wish me to add? Post here and I will run some tests.

Maybe these 2:

Roman*Illyria:SRB_Svilos_Krusevlje:R6693,0.119514, 0.149283,0.011314,-0.015827,0.022158,-0.002789,-0.00047,0.013384,0.011658,0.027518,-0.003735,0.016036,-0.019177,0.008257,-0.008415,-0.01127,-0.002086,0.001267,0.011061,-0.004502,-0.003369,-0.002473,-0.002342,0.005061,-0.005628
Roman*Illyria:SRB_Svilos_Krusevlje:R6701,0.126344, 0.153345,0.028284,-0.028101,0.032621,-0.009482,0.005405,0.003,0.010431,0.031709,0.005521 ,0.001499,-0.006838,-0.001239,-0.011129,-0.014054,-0.011865,-0.004054,0.002137,-0.006503,-0.009733,-0.008779,0.002095,0.002289,-0.00467
11-29-2023, 08:37 AM
Feiichy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dušan

Maybe these 2:

Roman*Illyria:SRB_Svilos_Krusevlje:R6693,0.119514, 0.149283,0.011314,-0.015827,0.022158,-0.002789,-0.00047,0.013384,0.011658,0.027518,-0.003735,0.016036,-0.019177,0.008257,-0.008415,-0.01127,-0.002086,0.001267,0.011061,-0.004502,-0.003369,-0.002473,-0.002342,0.005061,-0.005628
Roman*Illyria:SRB_Svilos_Krusevlje:R6701,0.126344, 0.153345,0.028284,-0.028101,0.032621,-0.009482,0.005405,0.003,0.010431,0.031709,0.005521 ,0.001499,-0.006838,-0.001239,-0.011129,-0.014054,-0.011865,-0.004054,0.002137,-0.006503,-0.009733,-0.008779,0.002095,0.002289,-0.00467

Not bad, but they have very slight Slavic (1-2%) and R6693 scores 7% Germanic here.

Here you can try with samples from Croatia that I filtered:

Code:

West_Balkan_late_antiquity_early_medieval:HRV_Omišalj-Mirine:R2050,0.112685,0.148267,-0.001886,-0.0323,0.017849,-0.018965,0.001645,-0.004615,0.005727,0.019317,-0.002273,3e-04,-0.015609,0.005092,-0.007057,-0.00358,-0.001043,0.006714,0.011313,-0.016633,-0.009733,-0.005564,0.000986,-0.004338,-0.000359 West_Balkan_late_antiquity_early_medieval:HRV_Gardun:R3543,0.114961,0.151314,0.008297,-0.028424,0.022158,-0.011156,0.006815,0.001154,-0.006749,0.029522,-0.005196,0.010491,-0.01115,-0.010046,-0.010858,-0.002254,-0.003651,0.001394,0.000503,-0.008129,-0.005989,-0.001484,-0.005176,0.003012,-0.000359 West_Balkan_late_antiquity_early_medieval:HRV_Sipar:R3662,0.118376,0.149283,0.004525,-0.031654,0.029852,-0.003068,-0.002585,0.002077,0.013703,0.023691,0.003735,0.012889,-0.013528,0.004679,-0.008686,-0.006364,-0.003651,-0.002534,-0.000251,-0.002876,0.000125,0.003215,-0.001109,-0.000723,0.001317 West_Balkan_late_antiquity_early_medieval:HRV_Sisak_Pogorelec:R2042,0.091058,0.150298,-0.001131,-0.053295,0.022466,-0.022311,-0.001175,-0.000923,0.019225,0.014579,-0.000974,-0.003447,0.004311,-0.008945,0.006515,-0.00411,0.008866,-0.004687,-0.000377,-0.007128,-0.00262,0.00507,-0.001602,-0.003253,0.000838 West_Balkan_late_antiquity_early_medieval:HRV_Velic:R3685,0.117238,0.146236,0,-0.027778,0.017849,-0.020638,-0.00329,-0.006692,-0.000818,0.021868,-0.000325,0.003897,-0.018434,-0.001514,-0.009908,0.009944,0.011474,-0.003421,0.00264,-0.002501,-0.004866,-0.004081,-0.002958,0.004699,-0.001557 West_Balkan_late_antiquity_early_medieval:HRV_Zadar_Poliklinika:R3746,0.126344,0.155376,0.012068,-0.047804,0.026774,-0.015339,-0.000235,-0.000923,0.014521,0.045377,0.006496,0.012889,-0.01219,-0.009909,-0.019815,-0.001061,0.018515,0.002914,0.009176,-0.008254,-0.013476,-0.001731,-0.006162,0.003133,-0.005029 West_Balkan_late_antiquity_early_medieval:HRV_Zadar_Ulica:R3743,0.119514,0.162485,0.009805,-0.028747,0.028005,-0.012271,0.00188,0.005538,0.00409,0.034989,0.009581,0.003747,-0.008028,0.001101,-0.017508,-0.012994,-0.000261,0.003294,0.004777,-0.012256,-0.007612,0.00371,0.002095,0.005181,-0.002155 West_Balkan_late_antiquity_early_medieval:HRV_Zadar_Ulica:R3744,0.114961,0.152329,0.012445,-0.021641,0.022773,-0.016733,-0.00517,-0.001385,0.001227,0.0277,-0.008931,0.00045,-0.019326,-0.011147,-0.007057,-0.007955,-0.000391,0.000507,0.005656,0.001876,-0.003743,0.003215,0.004437,-0.004097,0.001557

Keep in mind these are mixed Paleo Balkanites with massive East Med input.

Also more steppe samples to add, they are 100% Turkic:

Code:

Avar_Eurasian_steppe:HUN_early_Avar_elite:CS465,0.0387,-0.384886,0.082589,-0.02261,-0.075091,-0.035698,0.018096,0.027922,0.007976,0.014032,-0.017051,3e-04,0.000149,0.001927,0.001764,-0.004906,0.000391,0.000507,0.005531,0.016508,-0.020464,0.002844,-0.020706,-0.000964,-0.000838 Avar_Eurasian_steppe:HUN_early_Avar_elite:KV3369,0.042115,-0.376761,0.101823,-0.027132,-0.091402,-0.049085,0.025146,0.02746,0.007567,0.012757,0.002761,0.005545,-0.006541,-0.000688,0.003257,0.004375,0.001173,0.002534,0.006662,0.013006,-0.018467,-0.005688,-0.008997,-0.001687,0.006586 Avar_Eurasian_steppe:HUN_early_Avar_leader:KFP7,0.030732,-0.404181,0.09692,-0.027455,-0.080323,-0.053826,0.021621,0.025845,0.015135,0.018041,-0.024033,-0.002997,-0.003568,0.018441,0.011265,-0.003447,0.001043,-0.008235,0.002514,0.016633,-0.019965,-0.009645,-0.015899,0.000964,0.00012 Avar_Eurasian_steppe:HUN_early_Avar_military_leader:FGD4,0.0387,-0.377777,0.080327,-0.01292,-0.075399,-0.044065,0.016216,0.018922,0.002863,0.006743,-0.023384,0.002398,0.000595,0.000413,0.010315,0.002254,-0.003912,-0.006461,0.003771,0.015883,-0.01148,-0.005317,-0.01861,-0.003976,-0.002874 Avar_Eurasian_steppe:HUN_middlelate_Avar_elite:KV3456,0.043253,-0.365591,0.101445,-0.013566,-0.081554,-0.035977,0.016686,0.025614,0.01309,0.012939,-0.020786,0.001499,-0.001933,-0.001651,0.001086,0.013524,0.007953,-0.004434,0.006159,0.018884,-0.027576,-0.006554,-0.023417,0.007953,0.003233
11-29-2023, 08:40 AM
Feiichy

I will remove Albo medieval sample, it has some fault; minor Slavic admixture.

Target: Old_Balkan:ALB_MA_I13839
Distance: 1.8479% / 0.01847861

94.4 West_Balkan_late_antiquity_early_medieval
5.6 Balto-Slavic
11-29-2023, 08:43 AM
Dušan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scarface F

Not bad, but they have very slight Slavic (1-2%) and R6693 scores 7% Germanic here.

Here you can try with samples from Croatia that I filtered:

Code:

West_Balkan_late_antiquity_early_medieval:HRV_Omišalj-Mirine:R2050,0.112685,0.148267,-0.001886,-0.0323,0.017849,-0.018965,0.001645,-0.004615,0.005727,0.019317,-0.002273,3e-04,-0.015609,0.005092,-0.007057,-0.00358,-0.001043,0.006714,0.011313,-0.016633,-0.009733,-0.005564,0.000986,-0.004338,-0.000359 West_Balkan_late_antiquity_early_medieval:HRV_Gardun:R3543,0.114961,0.151314,0.008297,-0.028424,0.022158,-0.011156,0.006815,0.001154,-0.006749,0.029522,-0.005196,0.010491,-0.01115,-0.010046,-0.010858,-0.002254,-0.003651,0.001394,0.000503,-0.008129,-0.005989,-0.001484,-0.005176,0.003012,-0.000359 West_Balkan_late_antiquity_early_medieval:HRV_Sipar:R3662,0.118376,0.149283,0.004525,-0.031654,0.029852,-0.003068,-0.002585,0.002077,0.013703,0.023691,0.003735,0.012889,-0.013528,0.004679,-0.008686,-0.006364,-0.003651,-0.002534,-0.000251,-0.002876,0.000125,0.003215,-0.001109,-0.000723,0.001317 West_Balkan_late_antiquity_early_medieval:HRV_Sisak_Pogorelec:R2042,0.091058,0.150298,-0.001131,-0.053295,0.022466,-0.022311,-0.001175,-0.000923,0.019225,0.014579,-0.000974,-0.003447,0.004311,-0.008945,0.006515,-0.00411,0.008866,-0.004687,-0.000377,-0.007128,-0.00262,0.00507,-0.001602,-0.003253,0.000838 West_Balkan_late_antiquity_early_medieval:HRV_Velic:R3685,0.117238,0.146236,0,-0.027778,0.017849,-0.020638,-0.00329,-0.006692,-0.000818,0.021868,-0.000325,0.003897,-0.018434,-0.001514,-0.009908,0.009944,0.011474,-0.003421,0.00264,-0.002501,-0.004866,-0.004081,-0.002958,0.004699,-0.001557 West_Balkan_late_antiquity_early_medieval:HRV_Zadar_Poliklinika:R3746,0.126344,0.155376,0.012068,-0.047804,0.026774,-0.015339,-0.000235,-0.000923,0.014521,0.045377,0.006496,0.012889,-0.01219,-0.009909,-0.019815,-0.001061,0.018515,0.002914,0.009176,-0.008254,-0.013476,-0.001731,-0.006162,0.003133,-0.005029 West_Balkan_late_antiquity_early_medieval:HRV_Zadar_Ulica:R3743,0.119514,0.162485,0.009805,-0.028747,0.028005,-0.012271,0.00188,0.005538,0.00409,0.034989,0.009581,0.003747,-0.008028,0.001101,-0.017508,-0.012994,-0.000261,0.003294,0.004777,-0.012256,-0.007612,0.00371,0.002095,0.005181,-0.002155 West_Balkan_late_antiquity_early_medieval:HRV_Zadar_Ulica:R3744,0.114961,0.152329,0.012445,-0.021641,0.022773,-0.016733,-0.00517,-0.001385,0.001227,0.0277,-0.008931,0.00045,-0.019326,-0.011147,-0.007057,-0.007955,-0.000391,0.000507,0.005656,0.001876,-0.003743,0.003215,0.004437,-0.004097,0.001557

Keep in mind these are mixed Paleo Balkanites with massive East Med input.

Also more steppe samples to add, they are 100% Turkic:

Code:

Avar_Eurasian_steppe:HUN_early_Avar_elite:CS465,0.0387,-0.384886,0.082589,-0.02261,-0.075091,-0.035698,0.018096,0.027922,0.007976,0.014032,-0.017051,3e-04,0.000149,0.001927,0.001764,-0.004906,0.000391,0.000507,0.005531,0.016508,-0.020464,0.002844,-0.020706,-0.000964,-0.000838 Avar_Eurasian_steppe:HUN_early_Avar_elite:KV3369,0.042115,-0.376761,0.101823,-0.027132,-0.091402,-0.049085,0.025146,0.02746,0.007567,0.012757,0.002761,0.005545,-0.006541,-0.000688,0.003257,0.004375,0.001173,0.002534,0.006662,0.013006,-0.018467,-0.005688,-0.008997,-0.001687,0.006586 Avar_Eurasian_steppe:HUN_early_Avar_leader:KFP7,0.030732,-0.404181,0.09692,-0.027455,-0.080323,-0.053826,0.021621,0.025845,0.015135,0.018041,-0.024033,-0.002997,-0.003568,0.018441,0.011265,-0.003447,0.001043,-0.008235,0.002514,0.016633,-0.019965,-0.009645,-0.015899,0.000964,0.00012 Avar_Eurasian_steppe:HUN_early_Avar_military_leader:FGD4,0.0387,-0.377777,0.080327,-0.01292,-0.075399,-0.044065,0.016216,0.018922,0.002863,0.006743,-0.023384,0.002398,0.000595,0.000413,0.010315,0.002254,-0.003912,-0.006461,0.003771,0.015883,-0.01148,-0.005317,-0.01861,-0.003976,-0.002874 Avar_Eurasian_steppe:HUN_middlelate_Avar_elite:KV3456,0.043253,-0.365591,0.101445,-0.013566,-0.081554,-0.035977,0.016686,0.025614,0.01309,0.012939,-0.020786,0.001499,-0.001933,-0.001651,0.001086,0.013524,0.007953,-0.004434,0.006159,0.018884,-0.027576,-0.006554,-0.023417,0.007953,0.003233

Quite similar with what I got in Illustrative DNA in West Balkans mode (in my signature)

Target: Dušan_scaled
Distance: 2.0255% / 0.02025542
53.6 Balto-Slavic
44.6 West_Balkan_late_antiquity_early_medieval
1.8 Avar_Eurasian_steppe
11-29-2023, 09:01 AM
Kiel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scarface F

About as Slavic as me, and highly Slavic for Hungarian. She has more Germanic and East Med than me tho, and much less Balkan. I noticed ethnic Hungarians usually score high East Med and less proper Balkan. I guess Roman presence in Pannonia was big.

Yes, she clusters with Ukranians from Zakarpattia. All, literally all of her ancestors have Hungarian surnames dating back to the early 1700s. She is from the Serbian border, lot of her ancestors lived in Vojvodina. Doesnt seem to be Serbian like at all...
11-29-2023, 09:51 AM
Feiichy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiel

Yes, she clusters with Ukranians from Zakarpattia. All, literally all of her ancestors have Hungarian surnames dating back to the early 1700s. She is from the Serbian border, lot of her ancestors lived in Vojvodina. Doesnt seem to be Serbian like at all...

Seems people like your girlfriend were typical for Vojvodina pre-Ottoman and in Ottoman era, before Serb migrations. Here are two locals from Srijem who are western Ukrainian like:

Distance to: Serbia_Sirmium_Ottoman.SG:R3906.SG
0.01886463 Ukrainian_Zakarpattia
0.02345250 Hungarian
0.02443668 Slovenian
0.02486251 Croat_North
0.02673816 Ukrainian_Lviv
0.02801453 Croat_Main
0.02836279 Czech
0.02876936 Slovakian
0.02932641 Bosnian
0.02941601 Ukrainian_Pontic

Distance to: Serbia_Sirmium_Ottoman.SG:R6737.SG
0.02600240 Ukrainian_Zakarpattia
0.02768315 Slovenian
0.02956098 Hungarian
0.03041092 Croat_North
0.03084445 Slovakian
0.03160085 Croat_Main
0.03192020 Ukrainian_Lviv
0.03231740 Bosnian
0.03356379 Ukrainian_Pontic
0.03438193 Czech

this one was also close:

Distance to: Serbia_Sirmium_Ottoman.SG:R9662.SG
0.02831945 Slovenian
0.02837124 Ukrainian_Zakarpattia
0.02842774 Hungarian
0.02861186 Croat_North
0.02963521 Czech
0.03055259 Slovakian
0.03260950 Ukrainian_Lviv
0.03272326 Croat_Main
0.03350498 Polish_Silesian
0.03382068 German_East

I assume they spoke Hungarian.
11-29-2023, 10:16 AM
Kiel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scarface F

Seems people like your girlfriend were typical for Vojvodina pre-Ottoman and in Ottoman era, before Serb migrations. Here are two locals from Srijem who are western Ukrainian like:

Distance to: Serbia_Sirmium_Ottoman.SG:R3906.SG
0.01886463 Ukrainian_Zakarpattia
0.02345250 Hungarian
0.02443668 Slovenian
0.02486251 Croat_North
0.02673816 Ukrainian_Lviv
0.02801453 Croat_Main
0.02836279 Czech
0.02876936 Slovakian
0.02932641 Bosnian
0.02941601 Ukrainian_Pontic

Distance to: Serbia_Sirmium_Ottoman.SG:R6737.SG
0.02600240 Ukrainian_Zakarpattia
0.02768315 Slovenian
0.02956098 Hungarian
0.03041092 Croat_North
0.03084445 Slovakian
0.03160085 Croat_Main
0.03192020 Ukrainian_Lviv
0.03231740 Bosnian
0.03356379 Ukrainian_Pontic
0.03438193 Czech

this one was also close:

Distance to: Serbia_Sirmium_Ottoman.SG:R9662.SG
0.02831945 Slovenian
0.02837124 Ukrainian_Zakarpattia
0.02842774 Hungarian
0.02861186 Croat_North
0.02963521 Czech
0.03055259 Slovakian
0.03260950 Ukrainian_Lviv
0.03272326 Croat_Main
0.03350498 Polish_Silesian
0.03382068 German_East

I assume they spoke Hungarian.

Thats really interesting.
I have seen some Ancestry DNA results of Hungarians from Vojvodina, they get 80-100% EE. Couldnt get them to get G25 tho.

Gf distances

Distance to: KielGF
0.01558406 Ukrainian_Zakarpattia
0.01847367 Ukrainian_Lviv
0.02046176 Slovenian
0.02135999 Croatian
0.02366999 Czech
0.02381375 Hungarian
0.02476318 Cossack_Ukrainian_Dnipropetrovsk
0.02503492 Polish_Silesian
0.02614015 Ukrainian_Zaporizhzhia
0.02702396 Ukrainian_Pontic
11-29-2023, 01:35 PM
Far_away

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scarface F

I am adding more Balkanic samples. By that I mean something from early medieval and late antiquity. Do you have anything from Serbia or Bulgaria you wish me to add? Post here and I will run some tests.

Code:

Serbia_Naissus_LateAntiquity.SG:R6764.SG,0.126344,0.161469,0.017348,-0.033915,0.038776,-0.02259,0.00141,0,0.004909,0.038816,0.006983,0.013038,-0.017245,0.004404,-0.018865,0.006232,0.030249,0.003674,0.010433,-0.004502,-0.009733,-0.004822,-0.005916,-0.003976,-0.011496 Serbia_Viminacium_Roman_elite_3.SG:R6756.SG,0.122929,0.171624,0.008674,-0.043282,0.030159,-0.01506,0.003055,-0.001385,0.003477,0.037358,0.005521,0.008093,-0.008028,-0.004542,-0.031894,-0.010077,0.009388,-0.00038,0.006662,-0.013381,-0.012104,0.012984,-0.004314,0.006868,-0.001078 Bulgaria_LateAntiquity:I18792,0.110408,0.179749,0.003771,-0.056202,0.023389,-0.020359,-0.003055,0.001846,0.01718,0.043737,-0.008769,0.003297,-0.028246,-0.016239,-0.019137,-0.005171,0.02386,-0.010642,-0.003897,-0.006003,-0.016097,0.017064,-0.002342,0.022292,-0.008143
11-29-2023, 01:42 PM
Feiichy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Far_away

Code:

Serbia_Naissus_LateAntiquity.SG:R6764.SG,0.126344,0.161469,0.017348,-0.033915,0.038776,-0.02259,0.00141,0,0.004909,0.038816,0.006983,0.013038,-0.017245,0.004404,-0.018865,0.006232,0.030249,0.003674,0.010433,-0.004502,-0.009733,-0.004822,-0.005916,-0.003976,-0.011496 Serbia_Viminacium_Roman_elite_3.SG:R6756.SG,0.122929,0.171624,0.008674,-0.043282,0.030159,-0.01506,0.003055,-0.001385,0.003477,0.037358,0.005521,0.008093,-0.008028,-0.004542,-0.031894,-0.010077,0.009388,-0.00038,0.006662,-0.013381,-0.012104,0.012984,-0.004314,0.006868,-0.001078 Bulgaria_LateAntiquity:I18792,0.110408,0.179749,0.003771,-0.056202,0.023389,-0.020359,-0.003055,0.001846,0.01718,0.043737,-0.008769,0.003297,-0.028246,-0.016239,-0.019137,-0.005171,0.02386,-0.010642,-0.003897,-0.006003,-0.016097,0.017064,-0.002342,0.022292,-0.008143

Thank you :)

Naissus is about 9% Slavic, but other two are fine, I'm taking them!

This one also works:

Code:

Montenegro_Doclea_Roman_oAegean.SG:R3481.SG,0.117238,0.157407,0.015462,-0.032946,0.018773,-0.012829,0.00376,-0.002538,0,0.029887,-0.005846,0.002997,-0.017245,0.003853,-0.010858,-0.017767,-0.002086,0.003927,0.004525,-0.012256,-0.001996,0.008903,-0.003081,-0.003012,-0.002395
11-29-2023, 01:58 PM
Feiichy

New version is here!

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...24#post7844124

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