R1a haplogroup may have originated in Iran

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Originally Posted by blogen

But this is the reality. This is one of the surprising scientific discoveries of the past years (it was discovered because of illnesses and allergies mostly), that the selection is so quick. The beneficial mutations spread under some thousand years. And this fact solve lot of problem in the racial history, for example the origin of the Northern Eurasian paleness. There was a disturbing difference between the archaeological finds and the contemporary populations. The contemporary Northern European population's considerable part does not have a racial ancestor in the Mesolithic. Only the Cromagnoids and the Lapponoids (and extint Veddoid elements of the Sungir population, they were Mesolithic migrants from the deep South) lived in Europe in the Mesolithic times. The velocity of the selection solves this problem, the other light color complexed European races were neolithic or later migrants and they were depigmented in the past millenia.

The original R1a and b carriers were swarthy than everybody else in the Middle East and South Asia. But later some of them changed in Europe.

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No it's not, it's just assumption. They assumed their theory was right and backsolved the numbers, which is not really science at all. They have not sequenced anyone with r1b from ancient times and gotten their color genes. We don't expect the people with darkie clades to have been white. Therefore whole study is fucking ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Kale

They are not saying R1a is 5800 years old. They are saying R1a1a1 is 5800 years old. That's pretty believable I think, because it really starts to branch off a lot shortly after, from what we can all likely guess is Indo-European expansion.

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Yeah I know but it's still very quick.

This thesis has blameworthy flaws, like putting Z280 upstream of Z282!!! and not testing other relevant SNP's like CTS4385, Z92 and Z280(!)itself.

Aside from it and other problems like undersampling of some regions, this is a huge progress and (hopefully) a source of cautious inspiration for other researchers.

Whoever moved the thread, don't do it again. This is not genetics, but archaeology that touches on genetics and moving the thread means I won't be able to find it later when digging through archaeology section.

I have an unfounded, groundless guess that Alexander the Great and his Macedonian armies spread Ar1An genes east into Persia and India. Before Alexander, I doubt if there was any r1A genes in those places.

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Originally Posted by Unome

I have an unfounded, groundless guess that Alexander the Great and his Macedonian armies spread Ar1An genes east into Persia and India. Before Alexander, I doubt if there was any r1A genes in those places.

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That implies ashkenazi jews are all greeks, which I don't think is the case.

Anyway, archaeology and history says middle eastern people today are not what they were, it's a mistake to make that assumption going back that far because it's seldom true.

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Originally Posted by Melonhead

It's obviously a very white "european" clade. If it centered in iran it says a lot about more than just Iran. If you deny that you are hopelessly biased.

If you look at haplomap of r1a, it almost has to have middle east origin if current spread has anything to do with the past. If that's truly the case then it says volumes about origin of r1b, as well.

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http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi..._R1a_Y-DNA.svg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b_(Y-DNA)

yes both came from west asia....it is said the original homeland of r1b is where red hair and green eyes comes from. I have read this.... to this day some people there are basically mongols with rb1 but have red hair! i think the siberian peoples may have pushed the rb1 and ra1 populations west ward as they were expanding and this resulted in both of these halogroups ending up in unpopulated europe.

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Originally Posted by NormanDePoer

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi..._R1a_Y-DNA.svg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b_(Y-DNA)

yes both came from west asia....it is said the original homeland of r1b is where red hair and green eyes comes from. I have read this.... to this day some people there are basically mongols with rb1 but have red hair! i think the siberian peoples may have pushed the rb1 and ra1 populations west ward as they were expanding and this resulted in both of these halogroups ending up in unpopulated europe.

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Well, that is one theory. Personally I think r1a = middle east and r1b = iberia. It almost has to be because iberia did not speak IE languages when the romans came. But it could have come through from north africa as well, or by sea.

the problem with R1b it seems there is an epmty in his trace, if were found a specific subclade of R1b (i don't remember which) in Europe then it would be conclused that r1b is of mesolthic origin

Ashkenazi jews have their own R1a type which is very diverged.

Davidski noted that from this study can be inferred that most Eastern and Northern European populations were unaffected by Turkics, because there is little Asian Z93 branch R1a in them but significantly more in Tatars and Turks with a peak in central Asia.

http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v...hg201450f4.jpg
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...3.png~original

Northwest European R1a clusters differently because of Z284, also an European branch.

http://oi60.tinypic.com/nodeuc.jpg