Were the Gauls of France related to Irish Celts?

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03-04-2015, 04:51 PM
Grace O'Malley

Quote:

Originally Posted by blubb

The reason why Bretagne is so high in L21 is because lots of Insular Celts settled there from Britain in around the 5th century (maybe pushed by Anglo-Saxon invasions in Britain), their language is also more related to Irish/Welsh etc. than to the (all extinct) Continental Celtic ones like Gaulish.
So any comparison between (ancient) Celts on the Continent and the Insular ones has to exclude Bretagne
Attachment 55604

Breton is related to Cornish and Welsh. It is part of the Brythonic Celtic language group while Irish is related to the Goidelic branch along with Scots Gaelic and Manx. There is also quite high L21 in Normandy and the L21 in Northern France is actually older and more diverse than any found in Britain and Ireland so it was there first before coming to the Isles. All the R1b like L21 originated further east.
03-04-2015, 04:56 PM
Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik

Soo do you suspect the Irish Celts are related to the Gauls genetically? As Graham said there may be no proof but what do we suspect? This is the original question.
03-04-2015, 05:06 PM
Grace O'Malley

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maximus

Soo do you suspect the Irish Celts are related to the Gauls genetically? As Graham said there may be no proof but what do we suspect? This is the original question.

Only in respect to what I've said previously. It was highly likely R1b in the British Isles (& also Northern French) came from Rhenish Bell Beakers and they are most related to modern North Germans.

Here are my results and my mother's so we are quite close to Bell Beakers.

My results

Karelia 44.4392841
Samara 43.92900666
Yamnaya 33.16445575
CWC 17.3891086
BBC 6.942596195

Mother's results

Karelia 45.05193852
Samara 44.4955066
Yamnaya 33.29237322
CWC 18.1633014
BBC 5.974872888

The Bell Beakers appear to be closest to North Germans. Here are their averages as posted by someone on another forum.

Karelia: 43.43
Samara: 42.84
Yamnaya: 32.04
CWC: 15.63
BBC: 4.46
03-04-2015, 05:07 PM
Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grace O'Malley

Only in respect to what I've said previously. It was highly likely R1b in the British Isles (& also Northern French) came from Rhenish Bell Beakers and they are most related to modern North Germans.

Here are my results and my mother's so we are quite close to Bell Beakers.

My results

Karelia 44.4392841
Samara 43.92900666
Yamnaya 33.16445575
CWC 17.3891086
BBC 6.942596195

Edit to add my mother's results

Karelia 45.05193852
Samara 44.4955066
Yamnaya 33.29237322
CWC 18.1633014
BBC 5.974872888

The Bell Beakers appear to be closest to North Germans. Here are their averages as posted by someone on another forum.

Karelia: 43.43
Samara: 42.84
Yamnaya: 32.04
CWC: 15.63
BBC: 4.46

Yeah my Y-DNA is R1b....
03-04-2015, 05:17 PM
Graham

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grace O'Malley

The Bell Beakers appear to be closest to North Germans. Here are their averages as posted by someone on another forum.

Was looking through Polakos K15 Bell beakers yesterday. There's two groups spread out. A South Netherlands/most likely North French group and the other very Germanic.
03-04-2015, 05:20 PM
Grace O'Malley

Here's the Blog on Eurogenes if anyone is interested in reading. All these ancient genomes are really fascinating and helping us understand modern populations and ancient movements.

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com.au/201...rded-ware.html
03-04-2015, 05:22 PM
Grace O'Malley

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham

Was looking through Polakos K15 Bell beakers yesterday. There's two groups spread out. A South Netherlands/most likely North French group and the other very Germanic.

Did you check to see how close you are to the Bell Beakers Graham?
03-04-2015, 05:24 PM
Duke

gauls were mostly south-central france?
03-04-2015, 05:27 PM
Italo-Celto-Germanic

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grace O'Malley

Breton is related to Cornish and Welsh. It is part of the Brythonic Celtic language group while Irish is related to the Goidelic branch along with Scots Gaelic and Manx. There is also quite high L21 in Normandy and the L21 in Northern France is actually older and more diverse than any found in Britain and Ireland so it was there first before coming to the Isles. All the R1b like L21 originated further east.

No it comes from further South.

From R1b.org

http://i.imgur.com/jA8PL2h.png

L21 evolved from P312, whose highest diversity is found in Tyrol between Italy and Austria. P312 is the sister clade of U106 which also came from the Alps.

As for languages.

http://i.imgur.com/LVZKhog.jpg

Ancient Ligurian is now listed as being either Celtic or Para Celtic with Italic influences.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liguri...uage_(ancient)

The broken link?
03-04-2015, 05:30 PM
Graham

If you're interested Euclidean distance in Bell Beaker. Running with NW Europeans.

Quote:

S Dutch 7.3315543
French 7.4857465
SWEnglish 8.9121658
SEEnglish 10.143397
WGerman 11.279248

Quote:

S Dutch 14.150768
French 15.658902
Hinxton4 15.728522
NGerman 16.217733
SWEnglish 16.906883

Quote:

S Dutch 8.9668085
NGerman 11.094324
SWEnglish 11.309889
French 11.593037
WGerman 12.447302

-----------------------------------------------------------

Quote:

Icelandic 6.1312678
Danish 6.5065283
SWEnglish 7.0875454
SEEnglish 7.206171
N Dutch 7.4365277

Quote:

Hinxton4 10.710051
NGerman 10.858956
N Dutch 11.577781
Danish 11.739996
Irish 11.760162

Quote:

Danish 10.41551
Icelandic 10.640087
NGerman 11.053448
N Dutch 11.232878
W Nor 11.378201

Quote:

NGerman 8.7288958
Danish 10.808824
N Dutch 11.56526
S Dutch 11.621216
WGerman 12.408666

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