Southeast England was 80% replaced by Anglo-Saxons in the Early Middle Ages

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Originally Posted by Creoda

Unknowable, and I doubt it.

Southeast/East England had been very Romanised too. I'll be surprised if the Britons the Anglo-Saxons mixed with were exactly like modern Irish/Scots.

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How about most of the pre-Anglo-Saxon men instead?

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Originally Posted by Ruggery

And not woman and childrens?

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Probably male children and women too old to reproduce were eradicated as well.

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Originally Posted by celticdragongod

How about most of the pre-Anglo-Saxon men instead?

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Why is that necessary? Ethnic cleansing has often happened throughout history, without most of the men being killed. People flee, are driven out, or are demographically overwhelmed. Only 80 years ago swathes of Eastern Europe were ethnically German that are now void of Germans, most of them weren't killed but fled/were expelled West.

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Originally Posted by Creoda

Still, most of England is genetically pretty similar and clusters together as per the POBI to this day, the regional differences aren't that pronounced until you reach Devon, the Welsh border counties, and the Northeast/Cumbria (and what was Elmet). So I've been of the view this mix mostly happened in the Southeast/East Anglia in the 5th/6th centuries and then gradually replaced and drove out the Britons in other areas except those I mentioned.

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Yes those were the areas I was talking about, the Marches, Devon etc, gets hillier too with less decent arable land. The central and southern areas are pretty much uniform

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Originally Posted by Graham

Perhaps it could be in line with England ruled by a foreign hierarchy that continued through to the Normans. With poorer Britons living out of town.


Who knows, headaches. Will read when it comes out.

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Early Anglo-Saxon settlements weren't exactly towns, they largely avoided the old Roman towns/caesters, which were last occupied by Britons before they were abandoned.

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Originally Posted by Creoda

Unknowable, and I doubt it.

Southeast/East England had been very Romanised too. I'll be surprised if the Britons the Anglo-Saxons mixed with were exactly like modern Irish/Scots.

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Another factor is the BellBeakers, Pre-Indo Britons, Saxons and Danes all had similar dna (just in different levels), haplogroups etc. Even the rare I haplogroups called Isles clades are found all over Germany, Northern France, Scandinavia, Northern Netherlands. I think these kind of issues are never cut and dry and often the methods which people used to investigate aren't robust enough to form a proper conclusion. Although I do somewhat agree with the hypothesis, I still have to remain skeptical just based off knowing the complexity.

On Eurogenes K13 the Saxon samples seem quite distant from any modern population.

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Distance to:        NO3423_England_Saxon.SG_1170_ybp
6.99597027        Norwegian

Distance to:        I0777_England_Saxon.SG_1478_ybp
4.18627519        Denmark

Distance to:        I0774_England_Saxon.SG_1483_ybp
2.85243755        Danish

Distance to:        I0773_England_Saxon.SG_1490_ybp
5.85939417        Norway_South_Central

Distance to:        I0769_England_Saxon.SG_1455_ybp
7.11819500        Norwegian

Distance to:        I0161_England_Saxon.SG_1165_ybp
2.98291803        Danish

Distance to:        I0159_England_Saxon.SG_1247_ybp
4.53517365        West_Scottish

Distance to:        I0157_England_Saxon.SG_1232_ybp
4.62495405        Norwegian

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Creoda

Early Anglo-Saxon settlements weren't exactly towns, they largely avoided the old Roman towns/caesters, which were last occupied by Britons before they were abandoned.

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Honestly, I was getting all confused getting my head around it. Ignore what a said. :D

Want to see what the study shows first. The current Saxons we have seen look more mixed than that.

Are the Irish and Scots more "Saxon" than the English?

Global25:

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Distance to:        England_Saxon
0.01835674        Irish
0.01852710        Scottish
0.02010173        Orcadian
0.02017702        Shetlandic
0.02112210        English
0.02137730        Welsh
0.02393586        English_Cornwall

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A simple model, to be taken with a grain of salt. According to this, the Anglo-Saxon contribution is approximately 15%.

Code:

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Target: Shetlandic
Distance: 1.7569% / 0.01756912
52.4        England_Saxon
47.6        England_Roman

Target: Irish
Distance: 1.1342% / 0.01134196
69.2        England_Roman
30.8        England_Saxon

Target: Scottish
Distance: 0.9918% / 0.00991845
75.2        England_Roman
24.8        England_Saxon

Target: English
Distance: 1.1736% / 0.01173631
84.2        England_Roman
15.8        England_Saxon

Target: Orcadian
Distance: 0.9817% / 0.00981675
84.2        England_Roman
15.8        England_Saxon

Target: Welsh
Distance: 1.2022% / 0.01202204
84.8        England_Roman
15.2        England_Saxon

Target: English_Cornwall
Distance: 1.4197% / 0.01419734
92.4        England_Roman
7.6        England_Saxon

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My ancestors (I think)