NW Croat vs Czech-Slovak members PCA

Another thing that complicates the matter is that if my friend results are representative, than northern chakavian speakers are also not far from west Slavs and in Kajkavian/Slovenian cluster. As far as I know, chakavian is not similar to west Slavic languages but it has some very arhaic old Slavic features that are resembling eastern Slavic.

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Originally Posted by Leto

Can a Standard Croatian speaker get by in Slovenia and vice versa (a Slovene speaker in Croatia)?

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I understand quite a bit of Slovenian, but that's probably only because I live close to Slovenia and been there quite a few times. I think if I wasn't exposed to Slovenian, I would understand better Macedonian language for example.

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Originally Posted by Stearsolina

I understand quite a bit of Slovenian, but that's probably only because I live close to Slovenia and been there quite a few times. I think if I wasn't exposed to Slovenian, I would understand better Macedonian language for example.

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Why specifically Macedonian of all? And not Bulgarian for example.

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Originally Posted by Leto

Why specifically Macedonian of all? And not Bulgarian for example.

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Because Macedonian is significantly more intelligible with standard Serbo-Croatian than Bulgarian is. And that is because Bulgarian standard is based on eastern Bulgarian dialect, which is further removed from Serbo-Croatian.

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Originally Posted by Stearsolina

Because Macedonian is significantly more intelligible with standard Serbo-Croatian than Bulgarian is. And that is because Bulgarian standard is based on eastern Bulgarian dialect, which is further removed from Serbo-Croatian.

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Damn you got skills

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Originally Posted by Stearsolina

Another thing that complicates the matter is that if my friend results are representative, than northern chakavian speakers are also not far from west Slavs and in Kajkavian/Slovenian cluster. As far as I know, chakavian is not similar to west Slavic languages but it has some very arhaic old Slavic features that are resembling eastern Slavic.

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As for the topic whether Shtokavian, Kajkavian and Chakavian were related to particular tribes:

A dialect means for sure an earlier common contact of the speakers in question. But as for the lingusitic "ancestry" of these dialects I've hat a look for the "what?"-word in other languages. Interesting is that you do have both "shto" and "kakov" (the latter is obviously related to the Kajkavian and the Chakavian "what?"-word) in Russian, see pic:

https://i.imgur.com/sbEfG9X.jpg

To me this indicates that it's not about real language differences, but just more about what word usage has developed to be common, the shto or the kak word. Such a thing might have developed comparably late and must NOT be linked to from where the Slavic settlers of a particular later spoken dialect initially came from. (Other traits of the dialects may give hints for origins, but I think, that the "waht?"-word does not.)

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Originally Posted by rothaer

As for the topic whether Shtokavian, Kajkavian and Chakavian were related to particular tribes:

A dialect means for sure an earlier common contact of the speakers in question. But as for the lingusitic "ancestry" of these dialects I've hat a look for the "what?"-word in other languages. Interesting is that you do have both "shto" and "kakov" (the latter is obviously related to the Kajkavian and the Chakavian "what?"-word) in Russian, see pic:

To me this indicates that it's not about real language differences, but just more about what word usage has developed to be common, the shto or the kak word. Such a thing might have developed comparably late and must NOT be linked to from where the Slavic settlers of a particular later spoken dialect initially came from. (Other traits of the dialects may give hints for origins, but I think, that the "waht?"-word does not.)

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No, kaj is derived from *kъjь.
In Russian it exists as кой, archaic word that can mean either how, which, who, or what; dependng on the context.
In Shtokavian, this root evolved into koji, with the meaning which, while in Kajkavian it evolved into kaj, with the meaning what.

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Originally Posted by Alenka

No, kaj is derived from *kъjь.
In Russian it exists as кой, archaic word that can mean eiter how, which, who, or what; dependng on the context.
In Shtokavian, this root evolved into koji, with the meaning which, while in Kajkavian it evolved into kaj, with the meaning what.

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Uups, a little bit embarrassing for me then... I maybe was too quick after finding also this quote: "Kajkavian kak (how) and tak (so) are exactly like their Russian cognates and Prekmurje Slovene compared to Shtokavian, Chakavian, and standard Slovene kako and tako." ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kajkavian ) Okay, "what" and "how" are different words indeed, though from the same semantic family I'd say, as also is suggested by "kakov" seemingly also getting to mean what in Russian. But yep, nothing to defend and thanks for the correction.

So there was a same root that developed into koji in Shtokavian and kaj in Kajkavian. If I get you right, it's also not about a real absence of that word in the respective other dialect, but seemingly a question of how the usage developed. Is there any time estimate for that development? And what does koji mean in Shtokavian?

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Originally Posted by rothaer

As for the topic whether Shtokavian, Kajkavian and Chakavian were related to particular tribes:

A dialect means for sure an earlier common contact of the speakers in question. But as for the lingusitic "ancestry" of these dialects I've hat a look for the "what?"-word in other languages. Interesting is that you do have both "shto" and "kakov" (the latter is obviously related to the Kajkavian and the Chakavian "what?"-word) in Russian, see pic:

https://i.imgur.com/sbEfG9X.jpg

To me this indicates that it's not about real language differences, but just more about what word usage has developed to be common, the shto or the kak word. Such a thing might have developed comparably late and must NOT be linked to from where the Slavic settlers of a particular later spoken dialect initially came from. (Other traits of the dialects may give hints for origins, but I think, that the "waht?"-word does not.)

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Differences between the dialactes are a lot bigger than the 'what' usage using kaj, ča or što. It is just that dialactes were named after the usage of 'what'.

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Originally Posted by rothaer

As for the topic whether Shtokavian, Kajkavian and Chakavian were related to particular tribes:

A dialect means for sure an earlier common contact of the speakers in question. But as for the lingusitic "ancestry" of these dialects I've hat a look for the "what?"-word in other languages. Interesting is that you do have both "shto" and "kakov" (the latter is obviously related to the Kajkavian and the Chakavian "what?"-word) in Russian, see pic:

https://i.imgur.com/sbEfG9X.jpg

To me this indicates that it's not about real language differences, but just more about what word usage has developed to be common, the shto or the kak word. Such a thing might have developed comparably late and must NOT be linked to from where the Slavic settlers of a particular later spoken dialect initially came from. (Other traits of the dialects may give hints for origins, but I think, that the "waht?"-word does not.)

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Kakov is practically the same as kakoj, both mean which (welch) and kak means how (wie).