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I'm so tired of seeing the Khazarian bullshit over and over again. A fucking old Gedmatch calculator can easily disprove it. Yet those idiots keep repeating it to this day. There is a great article by Ron Unz about the origins of Jews. He's of Jewish descent himself but starkly dissident.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnson Reed
They are not central/eastern Europeans geneticaly, although they immigrated and lived in these regions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Indarra
They are Levantine-Italian mix.
How about this model:Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnson Reed
cca 35% Samaritan, almost 60% central Italian and few percentage Slavic.
And no Slavic admixture among those in France and Germany, what is logical.
Later they moved from FR and DE to Slavic lands.
https://i.imgur.com/7eBOAYW.png
They have some Slavic admixture but it's about 10% and only present in Eastern European JewsQuote:
Originally Posted by Dušan
Yes, see my post above.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriekman
https://i.ibb.co/fFvxKwQ/floorp-9jd7iqvu-Lu.png
This is a better model for Ashkenazi Jews and Europeans. Most of the samples are from the Imperial Roman Age.
Code:Anatolian:Ḫattuša,0.1064245,0.152837,-0.0422375,-0.0686375,-0.0089245,-0.0192435,-0.00188,-0.0061155,-0.0068515,0.022871,0.0043035,0.0018735,-0.0165755,0.0086015,-0.013097,-0.004309,0.0048895,-0.002787,0.0017595,-0.005315,-0.0009355,-0.0005565,-0.0023415,0.0019885,-0.00455
Caucasian,0.1052865,0.13405,-0.0671275,-0.034238,-0.0533945,-0.0029285,0.013043,-0.006346,-0.0766965,-0.033805,0.0006495,0.013413,-0.0260155,-0.000275,0.004886,-0.0207505,0.012843,-0.000507,-0.010496,0.019134,0.017906,-0.0011745,-0.0043755,-0.0147005,-0.0044905
Balkan:Moesian,0.121791,0.1590993,0.0131993,-0.0301467,0.0321083,-0.0135727,0.00235,0.0030767,0.003886,0.0335313,0.0061707,0.0105907,-0.0143213,-0.0014223,-0.02072,-0.0010163,0.0149073,0.0019847,0.008799,-0.0065863,-0.0112303,0.008079,-0.00341,0.003414,-0.0011577
Roman:Rome,0.1088434,0.1515678,-0.0004242,-0.0366605,0.019388,-0.0162105,-0.0015569,-0.0043556,0.0053178,0.0234401,0.0005072,0.004496,-0.0079534,-0.0013245,-0.0066334,-0.0028674,0.002298,-0.0005541,0.0020742,-0.0000311,-0.0012011,0.0005101,0.0034815,-0.0015364,-0.0007185
Roman:Picenum,0.1104085,0.1500445,0.0028282,-0.0457045,0.0199268,-0.0171518,0.0000588,-0.002423,0.0099192,0.0283832,0.0051558,0.0056952,-0.0081022,-0.0020642,-0.006311,-0.004707,0.0022492,-0.0002215,0.0046822,-0.0014068,-0.0035565,0.003246,-0.0032045,-0.002952,-0.0039815
Mesopotamian:Dinkha-Tepe,0.0902048,0.1409048,-0.0628848,-0.0776008,-0.027005,-0.0253092,0.0018212,-0.0072692,-0.010584,0.0013668,0.0073888,-0.003709,0.0090312,-0.000757,-0.0025785,0.0126955,-0.0007825,0.0027238,0.003771,-0.0038455,0.0045858,0.002195,-0.0052995,-0.0013858,0.0025445
Canaanite,0.0840665,0.148393,-0.0634209,-0.1014829,-0.0118078,-0.0396034,-0.0043807,-0.0094099,0.013829,0.0086646,0.0101956,-0.0108203,0.0216497,0.0046582,-0.0096671,0.0086647,-0.0030674,0.0020017,0.002749,0.0064067,0.0042414,0.0053394,-0.0035185,-0.0008072,-0.0001107
Celtic:Insular:Roscommon,0.1265792,0.1315286,0.0600402,0.0508447,0.0368238,0.0178875,0.000705,0.0048618,0.0043937,0.0011438,-0.0062604,0.0071419,-0.0153941,-0.0164436,0.0252954,0.007832,-0.0080209,0.0015596,0.0018855,0.0036828,0.0051288,0.0038034,0.0013388,0.0119334,-0.0005368
Celtic:Continental:Faux-Vesigneul,0.1277096,0.1367916,0.057624,0.0362406,0.0469625,0.0108209,0.005499,0.0028846,0.0085288,0.0121734,-0.0034263,0.0071935,-0.0125322,-0.008794,0.0130562,-0.0031025,-0.0104828,0.0017104,0.0024637,-0.0009129,0.0050038,0.0049585,-0.0013803,-0.0012772,-0.0015806
Germanic:Öland,0.1255306,0.1260707,0.0751547,0.0613239,0.0448874,0.0220723,0.0060429,0.0101864,0.005376,-0.0036186,-0.0041293,-0.000942,-0.0037801,0.0015729,0.0162863,0.0066106,-0.0052527,0.0024253,0.0064287,0.0067174,0.0068091,0.0015016,0.0011444,0.0097604,-0.0000686
Germanic:Nordland,0.133173,0.127957,0.073916,0.063308,0.046162,0.019801,0.003055,0.003,0.003068,-0.009112,-0.014615,0.002997,-0.010258,-0.009634,0.027144,0.007425,-0.002477,0.001774,0.003771,0.01088,0.007487,0.005564,0.000246,0.010122,-0.005149
Germanic:Zealand,0.127482,0.131003,0.066185,0.066538,0.042931,0.0214745,0.0027025,0.0129225,0.00859,-0.010934,-0.003816,0.0080175,-0.0043855,-0.004542,0.0217835,0.007027,-0.0131685,0.008488,0.005091,0.0075035,0.0086725,0.007172,0.001171,0.013315,0.0015565
Balto-Slavic:Baltic,0.1305171,0.1268283,0.1001044,0.1110769,0.048385,0.0399124,0.0145449,0.0188197,-0.000568,-0.0488596,-0.0003249,-0.0189164,0.0329201,0.0433512,-0.0168293,0.0013113,0.0021294,-0.0014498,-0.0003212,0.0077817,-0.0024957,-0.0051934,0.0092299,-0.0223726,0.0025412
Balto-Slavic:Slavic,0.135449,0.128972,0.080704,0.063954,0.034776,0.034025,0.006815,0.007615,0.009613,-0.02041,-0.001461,-0.005245,0.010852,0.026561,-0.014658,-0.002254,0.002347,0.001267,0.01081,-0.001751,0.001622,-0.002844,0.009613,-0.008314,0.005389
Turkic:Oghuz,0.070001,-0.178733,0.052797,0.007106,-0.0438545,-0.0110165,0.0047,0.0119995,-0.010942,-0.0073805,-0.0178625,-0.002173,0.00171,-0.0099775,0.0026465,0.002254,-0.0065845,0.002597,0.011753,0.0106925,-0.020713,-0.000804,-0.0109075,-0.0024705,-0.001497
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnson Reed
For unveiling the origin you should only use Ashkenazi_Germany, because they are the most pure Ashkenazis. Historical records tell that they mostly came from Italy but also somewhat from France to the Rhineland where they ultimately formed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Frank Grimes
You can model them roughly as 50% Northern Italy and 50% Levant, which is preferred by many, mostly Jewish, scholars. The thing is that this is somewhat arbitrary and the modelling that gives the highest Levant proportion. Additionally, such a model is ahistorical as there were no big old Jewish communities known in Northern Italy where Jews could have picked up all non-Levant DNA. But they were in Southern Italy. And if you use Southern Italy instead of Northern Italy you get roughly 90% Southern Italy and 10% Levant. In the somewhat newer paper on the Erfurt Jews there is even carefully stated that such a modelling would fit a little bit better than the mentioned hitherto 50:50 model. If you model with Greek and (pre-Turkic) Anatolians you get even less Levant, ofc.
I guess that the Ashkenazi Jews in ancestry were 90+% converts from the Eastern half of the Roman Empire including Southern Italy and that they were genetically essentially identical to the Christians in the Roman Empire per abt. 300 AD. Both groups initially fed from the same source. First you had conversions in huge numbers to Judaism in the Roman Empire and later you had mass conversions from Judaism to Christianity. But in contrast to Christians Jews became "frozen" at abt. 300 AD. As for Ashkenazi Jews they might well be 90% converts from Southern Italy in ancestry.
Just anectodally I add a pic of the pagan Pompeii banker (sic!) Lucius Caecilius Iucundus from 79 AD. I consider him looking textbook Ashkenazi. Such folks may later have become Jewish and even later, when Jews mass converted to Christianity, have remained Jewish. Christianity was a kind of Jewish social-revolutionary movement that offered forgiveness and a re-start. It attracted have-nots and prohibited taking interest in case of money lending. It may not have been that attractive to well established Jews.
https://i.imgur.com/he6gBdy.jpeg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucius_Caecilius_Iucundus
Interestingly I had two Calabrians appear upstream of my results in Yfull, they must not have been long ago, I had seen them but at the time I was on other subjects. Downstream I have Ashkenazi and now upstream there are two Calabrese from Regio upstream, I have no idea what religion they are or how to interpret my situation right there in the middle next to a Dutchman.
It also happens to me that as a Spaniard, some experts on the subject of Central or Northern Europe do not consider or it seems that they do not want to accept or it is impossible or taboo for them any relation of Spain with the rest of Europe, especially Central or Northern Europe and even France, in relation to the fact that my haplogroup in particular could have been brought to Spain by someone from another European country, so as a Spaniard my haplogroup must be Phoenician or Sephardic and this is proving to be a problem for my research. In fact, In fact, in any given situation, I don't see any other Spanish flag except mine and my father's.
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-BY7452/
Distance to: CDG_scaledQuote:
Originally Posted by Demirkazık
0.02198223 Celtic:Insular:Roscommon
0.03214916 Germanic:Zealand
0.03374496 Germanic:Öland
0.03474729 Celtic:Continental:Faux-Vesigneul
0.03552748 Germanic:Nordland
0.07483820 Balto-Slavic:Slavic
0.12276205 Balkan:Moesian
0.12718871 Roman:Rome
0.13253615 Balto-Slavic:Baltic
0.13311164 Roman:Picenum
0.18181039 Anatolian:Ḫattuša
0.20745303 Mesopotamian:Dinkha-Tepe
0.21397480 Caucasian
0.22665012 Canaanite
0.33838390 Turkic:Oghuz
Target: CDG_scaled
Distance: 1.9079% / 0.01907933
62.4 Celtic:Insular:Roscommon
19.2 Germanic:Zealand
9.0 Celtic:Continental:Faux-Vesigneul
6.4 Balto-Slavic:Slavic
3.0 Balkan:Moesian
Good modelQuote:
Originally Posted by Demirkazık
Target: Dušan_scaled
Distance: 2.5172% / 0.02517214
48.8 Balto-Slavic
34.6 Balkan
11.8 Anatolian
2.8 Celtic
2.0 Turkic
Target: Dušan_scaled
Distance: 2.5172% / 0.02517214
34.6 Balkan:Moesian
27.0 Balto-Slavic:Slavic
21.8 Balto-Slavic:Baltic
11.8 Anatolian:Ḫattuša
2.8 Celtic:Continental:Faux-Vesigneul
2.0 Turkic:Oghuz
If too northern and distant Baltic removed.
Target: Dušan_scaled
Distance: 2.6653% / 0.02665287
59.0 Balto-Slavic
27.8 Balkan
8.6 Anatolian
2.0 Roman
1.4 Turkic
1.2 Caucasian