Iberian DNA haplogroups from 20,000-4,340 years ago exactly like modern Europeans

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Originally Posted by Fire Haired

Y DNA is just a direct lineage like alast name my last name comes from scotland but i am only 15% scottish Iberians do have 60% Celtic Y DNA but that does not make them CEltic R1b L11 which is teh type western europe has is only 5,000 years old the INdo Europeans spread it sacross europe that does not make everyone indo europeans and there was not a population replacment in Spain and Portugal the Celts uslley had the upperhand in the wars there so the celts replaced the old y DNA haplogroups in Iberia

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R1b L11 is kind of rare, and doesn't seem to exist much in western europe

http://forwhattheywereweare.files.wo...tructurev2.png

Yes i know what Y-DNA is. It basically means that at one point, most men here were R1b.

As i've said, in Iberia R1b doesn't correlate with former celtic-speaking areas. In fact, R1b doesn't correlate with former celtic areas in Europe either:

http://lacomunidad.elpais.com/blogfi...ogroup_R1b.gif

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...in_Europe2.png

R1b L11 is the ancestor from of all western European R1b of course it is rare but all R1b in Europe dcends from

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...yQKiyCoKbeHnKw

this link explains everything rB! in Europe comes from the IndoE uropeans i call them the R1b L11 Indo Europeans because they would have orignally had R1b L11 all R1b in western Europe decends from R1b L11 and teh R1b subclades in Europe perfectly match with Indo European language families it is a fact that R1b was spread by indo Europeans in western Europe and all red hair in western Europe comes from those Indo Europeans

so i have probably mainly R1b L11 INdo European ancestry because i have red hair that is why if u look atwhere my name is and it mentions ethnicty i but over 60% R1b L11 Indo European

the reason why i have so muchR1b L11 INdo European ancestry and why R1b L11 and its decendants are so popular in western Europe is because they conquered just about every spot in western europe from 5,000-3,000ybp the Italo Celts whi have R1b L11 conquered France,central Europe, Italy, and most of Spain the Germanic ones conquered first GErmany then later conquered southern Scandnavia about 4,000ybp but then teh southern scandnvaien ones conquered the German ones just over 2,000ybp

people in europe today who have mainly R1b L11 Indo uropean ancestry are Irish,Scottish,Welsh,Nornish, and Britannys then after them Germans,French, southern Scandnvaiens the fact that all red hair in western europe comes from those indo europeans and that red hair is about 5% in GErmany,FRance, south scandnvai, and teh Britsih isles and that red hair is a resscive gene that means they have alot of ancestry from those people

check out origins of red hair on eupedia they explain how all red hair comes from R1b Indo Europeans https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...zkDGe4ZGqrCHfg

The R1b L11 Indo Europeans are not the jonly Indo Europeans that had alot of red hair the INdo Iraniens who spread the Indo European language to asia also had alot of red hair i explain the ethnic origin of Indo Iraniens in this thread http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...3-800-1-900ybp

even though iberians and italiens have mainly Y DNA R1b L11 subclades that does not means they have mainly R1b L11 Indo European ancestry the reason why they have so much is that when Celtic people migrated to Iberia about 3,000ybp they won most of teh wars and conquered most of Iberia because they had superior iron weapons and the Celts who had R1b killed off the old Y DNA haplogroups like I2a1a1 and G2a so then most Iberian got R1b even though the Celts in Iberia where genetically mainly Iberia they still had Celtic R1b and Celtic culture and they though of themselves as Celts most of spain before Rome conquered them spoke a Celtic language but the Celts did not completly conquer spain not all of it was celtic and many parts where celt iberians because neither group could conquer each other

the reason why R1b is so popular in Italy but red hair is not is because the Italian speakers migrated to Italy about 3,100ybp they quikley conquered most of it because they had iron weapons but like in Spain they inter married alot and quikley became mainly like the people who already lived there but they still kept R1b and the language but red hair still exsists in north spain and northern italy

That Celts came from central Europe is now, and has been, being challenged by what seems to me to be a considerable number of people. You've probably already heard of that but if not it's real easy to find online.

http://www.academia.edu/1432724/Celt...an_Connections

Also interesting is the work of Carlos Castelo.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...-Iberian-Konii

and there's much more out there.

But too bad most people only seem to be interested in classifying sluts and football players.

Im interested in the E-V13 findings. Any more on that?

it was 7,000 years old farmer in north Spain E1b1b V13 is most popular in Europe not north Africa some of it spread in the MEsloithci age 10,000-15,000ybp mainly in Spain and south east Europe but most of it spread in Greco Roman times here is a thread about this http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...n-and-European

E1b1b V13 orignally came from North Africa about 15,000ybp surprisingly Adolf Hitler had E1b1b V13
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplog...1b_Y-DNA.shtml

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Originally Posted by HispaniaSagrada

That Celts came from central Europe is now, and has been, being challenged by what seems to me to be a considerable number of people. You've probably already heard of that but if not it's real easy to find online.

http://www.academia.edu/1432724/Celt...an_Connections

Also interesting is the work of Carlos Castelo.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...-Iberian-Konii

and there's much more out there.

But too bad most people only seem to be interested in classifying sluts and football players.

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Celts lived in western Europe but they orignally came fro the steppes and volga Russia their ancestors who where the R1b L11 INdo Europeans conquered western Europe from 5,000-3,000ybp the Celts had mainly Invader blood red hair was also spread by the R1b L11 Indo Europeans and since red hair is a reccesive gene and celts had about 10% they probably had mainly R1b L11 Indo European blood
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...zkDGe4ZGqrCHfg

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...yQKiyCoKbeHnKw

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Originally Posted by Fire Haired

Celts lived in western Europe but they orignally came fro the steppes and volga Russia their ancestors who where the R1b L11 INdo Europeans conquered western Europe from 5,000-3,000ybp the Celts had mainly Invader blood red hair was also spread by the R1b L11 Indo Europeans and since red hair is a reccesive gene and celts had about 10% they probably had mainly R1b L11 Indo European blood
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...zkDGe4ZGqrCHfg

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...yQKiyCoKbeHnKw

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If you say so. My arms are up in the air. I just don't know.

What do you know about the Bell Beakers?

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Originally Posted by Fire Haired

Celts lived in western Europe but they orignally came fro the steppes and volga Russia

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It's not very likely. Most probable way is south of the Pontic Sea and then south of the Danube

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Originally Posted by Artek

It's not very likely. Most probable way is south of the Pontic Sea and then south of the Danube

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what evidence do u have

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Originally Posted by Fire Haired

what evidence do u have

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My evidence is a lack of evidence for your statement.

No signs of a visible gene flow through the Steppe north of the Caucasus.

Lack of any significant amount of Western Asian Admixture in people there(I don't count the Tatars).

And a simple thing - haplogroups. Their distribution and evolution suggests a gene flow of R1b's from what is now Turkey, through the southern Europe. Let's consider a recent study of the bulgarian haplogroups, where scientists observed some non-trivial amounts of R1b-L11 and suggested quite ancient age of it in Bulgaria.

If Pontic Steppe was so much R1b, it would be more common in Slavs. But it's not.

etc. etc.