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Central Bosnia..Anyway told you they are Serbs to by origins..Some of the nobility convert in cahtolich just before ottoman invasion bc they think this going to save them from Turks..No Croats there...should looking for Croats in far west part of Bosnia.But most of them migrated on west anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayetooey
Textbook example of origin Central Bosnian Muslims from Herzegovinian Orthodox vlachs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pribislav
Mother of this guy Aspurg is Muslims from Central Bosnia:
My Bosniak maternal side very likely (not yet tested but strong documentary evidence exist) are from vlach Ugarak tribe... https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...l=1#post575931
About migration of Orthodox Herzegovinian vlach to Bosnia and their conversion on Islam wrote some Bosnian Muslim authors.
Not even close. This person is ploting alike average Croat and no amount of lies and propaganda from you German mongrel and Pribislav can change that.Quote:
Originally Posted by HungryLion
Western Serbs=/=Croats
Ayetoney father is good example of pure western Serb, plotting north of Serbian average and still nowhere near Croats. Cope.
Mate, it has no sense to discuss with that mongrel who plots with Austrians and claims pure Serb descent. Out of respect for you and Ford I won't insults other normal Serbs just because of those two biased guys.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayetooey
Anyway, Central Bosnia has Croatian population that is pretty stable since middle ages and is second biggest region with Croatian population in BiH today after Western Herzegovina , even tho lot were expelled by Bosniaks in last war.
In my opinion division of Croat and Serb ethnic lands went trough central Bosnia also, so you can find both genetic profiles there among local population.
Not, Central Bosnia has most stable population out of all Bosnian regions and had least population change historically. Individual examples of coming from other regions don't really mean much here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pribislav
You are monkey mixed whit who knows what..not sure how u decide what are you ...StfuQuote:
Originally Posted by Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić
Is this Serb who is from same region as HungryLion "German mongrel"? https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...-K15-EurogenesQuote:
Originally Posted by Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić
https://i.imgur.com/0SPuOLR.png
Of course we are not like you. Unlike you mongrels we are not mixed with foreigners. You are mix of few nations, Leeloo is mix of 5-6 nations, Rococop is Italian admixed, one former Croatian user here has Swabian patetnal line... Every second Croatoan is mixed with foreigners, I know a lot of such cases from real life.
I am mixed but I am not a propagandist unlike you. My maternal side has roots in northeastern Bosnia and looks that it was pretty southern shifted-possibly being genetically Serbian.Quote:
Originally Posted by HungryLion
If that's true, I got no problem with that.
You are mixed also, it's pretty obvious.
He is lost case anyway...Quote:
Originally Posted by Pribislav
I guess if I say I am not it's not going to change anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić
Everyone can find out family roots, I did that, and there is nothing foregin there..Just a lot of R1a and I2a, as my dna said.
How aren't you mixed when Hungry Lion is genetically part German ? Or Mortimer, who is half-Gypsy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pribislav
Commonsense was part Croat and part Romanian, Stears said this girl Lena is part Hungarian.....not mixed my ass. Every European nation is mixed including yours, get over it.
And Bosniensis is part Gorani. He is muslim Serb right ? :rolleyes:
This guy plots very NW for a Serb but still inside variation - naturally since Banija is most NW region where ethnic Serbs settled except those in Slovenia.
HungyrLion isn't inside variation - he has clear and undeniable foreign admixture. Ph2ter told him that also and he is totally apolitical guy.
Lot of kids in the past were result of extra maritial affairs.Quote:
Originally Posted by HungryLion
So you are going to tell me that I am mixed even if I am not..cool :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić
Told u I am not mixed..If you really want I am closse to this bosnians just bit western, anyway in my region is strong slavic Dna, I don't see anything strange there.
If you were strong Slavic admixed you would pull northeast towards Ukrainians and Belarusians man. But you pull towards Germans.Quote:
Originally Posted by HungryLion
And your K36 central euro which is extremely high is big clue.
Bosnian Serbs ploting more northern autosomally and have higher R1a than Serbs from Serbia, monkey shiptar idiot!Quote:
Originally Posted by Outlaw
Y dna of Bosnian Serbs - 59% of lines are Slavic (I2+R1a), and 70% are northern (I2+R1a+I1+N).
https://i.imgur.com/11TNVjt.png
+Quote:
Originally Posted by Pribislav
In Central Bosnia were present Saxon miners. Some of the probably converted on Islam when Ottomans arrived.
All western balkan nations are just religious tribes with a whiff of cultural differences.
It just came to be that Serbs have absorbed the most of populace due Orthodox Christianity was State religion in Roman Empire.
Illyrian Tribes are (Croats, Serbs, Bosniaks, Montenegrins etc..)
Vlachs are Ex-Hellenized/Romanized Illyrian people who after the collapse of Empire were exiled from cities (hence they became a social state stockherders)
I don't want to say We are all the same, because Balkan tribes always fought because of religious and cultural reasons since EVER and nobody
succeeded to unite them.
So please stop with that Who is Croat or who is Serb or Bosniak... those are RELIGIOUS/CULTURAL identities not GENETIC ones.
Illyrian Tribes never formed nations, we are still tribal even if we pose as NATIONS... whole world is laughing at us.
This person has nothing western, it's pure Slavo-Vlach.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pribislav
Not even trolling, this guy is Polish.
Pole
# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarian 2.3
2 Slovenian 2.76
3 Croatian 2.8
4 Austrian 3.47
# Population Percent
1 NE_European 54.77
2 Mediterranean 25.41
3 Caucasian 13.04
4 SW_Asian 3.93
5 Horn_Of_Africa 1.31
6 S_African 0.87
7 Siberian 0.67
Bosniak
# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarian 2.46
2 Croatian 3.02
3 Austrian 3.04
4 Slovenian 3.41
# Population Percent
1 NE_European 53.57
2 Mediterranean 26.18
3 Caucasian 10.75
4 SW_Asian 5.25
5 Siberian 1.21
6 Horn_Of_Africa 0.66
7 Omo_River 0.53
8 Beringian 0.52
9 Oceanian 0.52
10 Amerindian 0.41
11 Wht_Nile_River 0.39
Puntdnal K15 right there, let me know if you want see the other calc.
Pole is even closer to Hungarian, Slovenian, Croatian reference. Bosniak is 0.43 closer to Austrian reference.
Das rite. Who wants to be 100% of anything? We’re all exotic mongrels. Chicks love exotic meatQuote:
Originally Posted by Bosniensis
There is other Bosniak from Central Bosnia. Somebody posted his K15 here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić
He is western as HungryLion, but more southern than HungryLion.
That's very little North-Atlantic.
Bosniaks are very close to Ukrainians.
I found this with no kitnumber,
Eurogenes K13 Oracle results:
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 Baltic 36.86
2 North_Atlantic 22.55
3 West_Med 12.99
4 East_Med 11.14
5 West_Asian 9.82
6 Red_Sea 3.61
7 Oceanian 1.13
8 Siberian 0.89
9 South_Asian 0.88
10 Sub-Saharan 0.07
11 East_Asian 0.06
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 4.49
2 Croatian 5.46
3 Ukrainian_Lviv 8.53
4 Ukrainian 10.1
5 Hungarian 10.35
6 South_Polish 10.48
7 Serbian 10.53
8 Southwest_Russian 12.11
9 Ukrainian_Belgorod 12.2
10 Polish 13.14
11 Romanian 13.28
12 Russian_Smolensk 14.13
13 Bulgarian 14.67
14 East_German 14.79
15 Austrian 14.8
16 Estonian_Polish 14.8
17 Belorussian 15.54
18 Kargopol_Russian 16.37
19 Erzya 17.22
20 Tatar 18.68
2 Sandzak Bosniaks
Code:Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 28.06
2 Baltic 23.66
3 East_Med 17.56
4 West_Med 17.53
5 West_Asian 8.86
6 Red_Sea 2.27
7 Siberian 1.43
8 Amerindian 0.57
9 East_Asian 0.04
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Romanian 4.03
2 Serbian 4.24
3 Bulgarian 6.6
4 Hungarian 11.23
5 Moldavian 11.53
6 Greek_Thessaly 12.92
7 Austrian 12.99
8 Croatian 13.46
9 North_Italian 13.48
10 Tuscan 14.85
11 East_German 15.15
12 French 15.62
13 West_German 15.66
14 South_Dutch 17.13
15 Portuguese 17.22
16 Italian_Abruzzo 17.79
17 Spanish_Galicia 17.8
18 Spanish_Cataluna 18.36
19 Spanish_Extremadura 18.59
20 West_Sicilian 19.11
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 79% Serbian + 21% Tuscan @ 1.64
2 77.4% Serbian + 22.6% North_Italian @ 1.67
3 81% Romanian + 19% French @ 1.74
4 63.2% Hungarian + 36.8% West_Sicilian @ 1.83
5 62.5% Tuscan + 37.5% Southwest_Russian @ 1.84
6 62.9% Tuscan + 37.1% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 1.89
7 72.9% Bulgarian + 27.1% South_Dutch @ 1.92
8 50.1% Greek_Thessaly + 49.9% Austrian @ 1.97
9 57.7% Tuscan + 42.3% South_Polish @ 1.97
10 66.3% Greek_Thessaly + 33.7% North_Swedish @ 1.99
11 68% Hungarian + 32% South_Italian @ 2.07
12 54.1% Greek_Thessaly + 45.9% East_German @ 2.08
13 78.5% Bulgarian + 21.5% Southeast_English @ 2.1
14 83.2% Romanian + 16.8% South_Dutch @ 2.11
15 84.2% Romanian + 15.8% Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.13
16 71.3% Bulgarian + 28.7% West_German @ 2.17
17 58.9% Tuscan + 41.1% Ukrainian @ 2.18
18 84.9% Romanian + 15.1% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 2.18
19 64.1% Tuscan + 35.9% Russian_Smolensk @ 2.18
20 79.9% Bulgarian + 20.1% Southwest_English @ 2.19
Code:Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 26
2 Baltic 24.89
3 West_Med 19.84
4 East_Med 17
5 West_Asian 7.93
6 Red_Sea 2.96
7 South_Asian 1.39
8 Siberian 0.01
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Romanian 4.46
2 Serbian 4.88
3 Bulgarian 6.27
4 Moldavian 10.95
5 Hungarian 12.15
6 Greek_Thessaly 12.57
7 Croatian 12.96
8 North_Italian 13.82
9 Austrian 13.97
10 Tuscan 15.27
11 East_German 15.78
12 French 17.02
13 West_German 17.48
14 Portuguese 17.87
15 Spanish_Galicia 18.12
16 Italian_Abruzzo 18.43
17 South_Dutch 18.77
18 Spanish_Extremadura 19.09
19 Spanish_Cataluna 19.14
20 West_Sicilian 19.28
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 88.9% Serbian + 11.1% Sardinian @ 1.75
2 54.2% Croatian + 45.8% Tuscan @ 2.03
3 57.8% Tuscan + 42.2% Ukrainian @ 2.18
4 63.1% Tuscan + 36.9% Russian_Smolensk @ 2.34
5 56.3% Tuscan + 43.7% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2.36
6 63.5% Tuscan + 36.5% Estonian_Polish @ 2.42
7 67.6% Tuscan + 32.4% Lithuanian @ 2.43
8 62.1% Tuscan + 37.9% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.52
9 61.7% Tuscan + 38.3% Southwest_Russian @ 2.52
10 58.6% Moldavian + 41.4% Tuscan @ 2.53
11 60.1% Croatian + 39.9% West_Sicilian @ 2.72
12 55.9% Greek_Thessaly + 44.1% East_German @ 2.83
13 61% Tuscan + 39% Polish @ 2.88
14 64.1% Tuscan + 35.9% Belorussian @ 2.92
15 55.1% West_Sicilian + 44.9% Polish @ 2.98
16 78% Serbian + 22% North_Italian @ 3.06
17 87.1% Romanian + 12.9% Southwest_French @ 3.08
18 51% West_Sicilian + 49% South_Polish @ 3.08
19 51.9% West_Sicilian + 48.1% Ukrainian @ 3.08
20 57% Tuscan + 43% South_Polish @ 3.11
academic samples from Sarajevo:
https://i.imgur.com/0Po5rFl.png
the average doesn't include the first 2 samples.
here are some Bosniaks from proper Bosnia. (without Krajina and Herzegovina).
Family1 is a group of relatives uploaded to gedmatch by the same account. I've seen 2 of their family trees.
Family2 is another such family, I didn't see their family trees, but they are close relatives of family1, so they must be from the same region.
_ North_Atlantic Baltic West_Med West_Asian East_Med Red_Sea South_Asian East_Asian Siberian Amerindian Oceanian Northeast_Afr Sub_Saharan family2 22.80 41.13 13.86 7.41 13.03 0.00 0.77 0.00 0.70 0.09 0.20 0.00 0.00 family2 25.64 39.04 15.30 5.20 13.44 0.00 0.77 0.15 0.46 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 family2 19.10 33.69 15.77 14.17 11.90 1.06 2.74 0.00 1.34 0.00 0.00 0.24 0.00 family2 31.30 33.45 13.50 6.98 8.68 1.45 4.64 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 family2 28.87 33.35 13.36 7.16 14.55 0.89 0.00 0.00 1.75 0.06 0.00 0.00 0.00 family2 23.47 33.08 15.61 10.14 12.75 1.23 3.33 0.00 0.30 0.00 0.00 0.09 0.00 family2 29.69 31.89 13.35 8.25 11.80 0.80 3.14 0.00 1.02 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 family2 27.89 31.39 17.44 11.85 7.06 1.35 0.34 0.00 1.43 0.63 0.00 0.62 0.00 family2 24.63 31.13 13.69 11.64 12.32 1.64 3.40 0.00 1.21 0.33 0.00 0.00 0.00 family2 22.87 30.79 18.74 10.81 11.95 2.29 0.00 0.00 2.15 0.00 0.40 0.00 0.00 family2 25.25 30.72 18.80 10.79 12.48 0.00 0.24 0.07 0.79 0.83 0.00 0.00 0.00 family1 24.45 37.66 13.91 9.13 11.69 0.11 0.00 0.60 0.41 0.55 0.00 0.86 0.63 family1 24.39 37.49 13.25 3.21 17.24 1.94 0.69 0.00 1.59 0.20 0.00 0.00 0.00 family1 22.82 37.26 17.07 8.44 11.23 1.14 0.40 0.40 0.08 1.15 0.00 0.00 0.00 family1 28.55 35.84 11.23 8.85 9.55 1.86 2.43 0.62 0.00 1.05 0.00 0.00 0.00 family1 28.99 35.28 12.63 7.18 10.46 1.55 2.21 0.05 0.00 1.56 0.10 0.00 0.00 family1 27.81 35.28 14.15 6.72 10.55 0.51 2.02 0.44 0.00 2.46 0.06 0.00 0.00 family1 28.12 35.26 14.88 5.97 11.76 2.41 0.60 0.44 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.55 0.00 family1 25.88 34.96 15.31 8.28 11.72 0.00 0.73 0.54 1.14 0.20 1.24 0.00 0.00 family1 27.51 33.79 16.42 8.91 11.16 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.99 0.62 0.00 0.59 0.00 family1 24.63 31.13 13.69 11.64 12.32 1.64 3.40 0.00 1.21 0.33 0.00 0.00 0.00 Bosniak 21.44 36.87 11.80 11.17 14.94 1.05 0.46 0.00 1.36 0.00 0.79 0.00 0.12 Bosniak 22.55 36.86 12.99 9.82 11.14 3.61 0.88 0.06 0.89 0.00 1.13 0.00 0.07 Bosniak 27.22 36.51 14.21 12.11 7.25 0.31 0.00 0.75 0.95 0.00 0.00 0.16 0.53 Bosniak 25.32 32.82 14.72 8.03 17.20 0.00 0.00 0.75 0.00 1.06 0.06 0.00 0.00 Bosniak 28.28 31.90 14.10 7.78 13.90 2.05 0.00 0.36 0.95 0.00 0.48 0.00 0.20 Bosniak 23.75 31.68 16.48 10.01 12.91 1.93 1.79 0.00 0.39 0.46 0.16 0.44 0.00 avg 25.67 34.45 14.68 8.95 12.04 1.14 1.30 0.19 0.78 0.43 0.17 0.13 0.06
the academic samples from Sarajevo and Zavidovici are from this same region, but they are different.
they are significantly less Slavic, and have small bits of recent Middle Eastern dna, according to the study.
I think it's a difference between rural and urban Bosniaks.
The genetic diversity they exibit for such a small nation, even without Sandzak, is astounding. Some of them are straight up like northern (!) Croats and Hungarians.
These might be descendants of medieval Slavonians. Irony is that muslims Bosniaks may have more old Slavonian ancestry than Croats, because oldest Slavonian Croats (Šokci) are descendants of Bosnian Catholics.Quote:
Originally Posted by CommonSense
Medieval Slavonians were probably north Croat and Hungarian like. After area was freed from Turks, islamised locals were massively expelled south to Bosnia.
East Asian scores? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by vbnetkhio
Will we get some updated Bosniak averages with this?
family2 is suspicious since they don't have a family tree, but even without them the average is the same, 34 Baltic, like Slovenians.Quote:
Originally Posted by CommonSense
edit: it's actually 35% Baltic without them!
Columns are misaligned, that's South Asia with the occasional high scores.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaspias
Ah yes, thanks for noting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayetooey
It is possible. Muslims were expelled from both Slavonia and Hungary and many of them found refuge in Bosnia. Otherwise it wouldn't make sense for some Bosniaks to have such outlying results compared to the other two Bosnian ethnic groups. In particular Bosnian Croats since Bosnian Serbs are mostly from Herzegovina/Montenegro/Raška.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
should it be without family2?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
Oh, I think you should decide. I trust your judgement.Quote:
Originally Posted by vbnetkhio
Muslims who moved from Slavonia to Bosnia in late 17th century were mostly descendants of settlers from Bosnia and other southern regions in 1530e when Ottomans conquered Slavonia, not descendants of medieval islamized Slavonians. In late 17th century they just returned to Bosnia after 160 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by CommonSense
Medieval Slavonians were kaykavians like NW Croatians and Slovenians. There is no linguistic kaykavian trace among Muslims who arrived to the Bosnia in late 17th century from Slavonia.
let's do without for now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
i'll give the mail if sombody wants to message them, they are a very interesting case.
I don't know, Slavonia wasn't empty when Ottomans came (although it was lowly populated), and I never heard locals escaped Turks somewhere. So probably some converted to Islam.Quote:
Originally Posted by Varda
Dialect isn't best thing to determine ancestry. These things can change in few generations.
Or maybe these settlers from Bosnia (I haven't heard for it btw but possible as settlers from BiH came to Hungary, like my family, so why would Slavonia be exception) came from Posavina or Soli/Usora which are defacto Panonnian regions and had same population like old Slavonia and Hungary?
Just speculating, but perhaps Panonnian Slavs extended south to (bosnian) Posavina and Mačva. Ethnic history of these lowlands is not clear to me.
Real Bosnia (geographically) starts around Doboj ("vrata Bosne")