"35%-55% Ashkenazis are of European Descent"

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Originally Posted by Osweo

They speak GERMAN. :yawn:

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You mean yiddish?

Majority of eastern Jews ("Litvaki") from former CCCP don't spoke in yiddish. Jews from Central/East Asia don't spoke in yiddish also.

If someone has to be Ubermensch Askhenazi are the best candidate.
There is something about them.
One can argue that they are 55 % white but that does not explain why are there so many Jewish physicists, chemists and mathematicians and scientists in general among only 10 000 000 Askhenazi population. No nation in the world no matter how Nordic does not even come close to numbers of Askhenazi in science textbook so to postulate that they are smart because of European admixture does not hold water.
One may not like this but I am only saying what it is as it is.
As I said before on nndb.com every Jew of European descent is considered white.
Remember Jews are 55% European and the rest is predominantly West Asian ( armenian, georgian... ) and around 10-15% South West Asian.
On nndb.com armenians, georgians and people of Caucasus are classified as white so Jews are more than 55% white at least according to nndb.com

I refuse to classify all these Jewish scientists who left an everlasting mark on science as non-white because as I said one can not postulate that they are intelligent because of European genes.
If they are intelligent and look white to majority of Europeans than they are white.
Intelligence is what is the most important. What is purpose of being blond and blue eyed if that person does not know to add two plus two if you catch my drift.
So, I repeat if they are intelligent and look white why not consider them white.

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Originally Posted by Whitebastard

If someone has to be Ubermensch Askhenazi are the best candidate.
There is something about them.
One can argue that they are 55 % white but that does not explain why are there so many Jewish physicists, chemists and mathematicians and scientists in general among only 10 000 000 Askhenazi population. No nation in the world no matter how Nordic does not even come close to numbers of Askhenazi in science textbook so to postulate that they are smart because of European admixture does not hold water.
One may not like this but I am only saying what it is as it is.
As I said before on nndb.com every Jew of European descent is considered white.
Remember Jews are 55% European and the rest is predominantly West Asian ( armenian, georgian... ) and around 10-15% South West Asian.
On nndb.com armenians, georgians and people of Caucasus are classified as white so Jews are more than 55% white at least according to nndb.com

I refuse to classify all these Jewish scientists who left an everlasting mark on science as non-white because as I said one can not postulate that they are intelligent because of European genes.
If they are intelligent and look white to majority of Europeans than they are white.
Intelligence is what is the most important. What is purpose of being blond and blue eyed if that person does not know to add two plus two if you catch my drift.
So, I repeat if they are intelligent and look white why not consider them white.

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Well the thing is their more Semitic cousins such as the Sephardim have significantly less European admixture, and are of average intelligence. Ashkenazis, out of all the Jewish populations, have the most European ancestry and are the most intelligent out of the bunch. I don't think this is can be considered coincidence. But you're questioning why they are so successful compared to the typical white? I wonder if it has something to do with the Jewish religion and the Catholic Church's banning of usury. Perhaps Ashkenazi Jews in Europe were allowed to progress in Mathematics while Europeans were retarded a tad.

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Originally Posted by Civis Batavi

But how recent is that ? That they began to speak German or Jiddish.

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trust me, they didn't learn this RHINELAND variety of German down in the Steppe. :coffee:

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Originally Posted by Redar14

You mean yiddish?

Majority of eastern Jews ("Litvaki") from former CCCP don't spoke in yiddish. Jews from Central/East Asia don't spoke in yiddish also.

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They speak Russian now, but spoke Yiddish in living memory. Their surnames are mostly German derived. :coffee:

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Originally Posted by Whitebastard

So, I repeat if they are intelligent and look white why not consider them white.

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This is daft.
Forget about who is 'White', which is a very problematic abstract category, open to all sorts of stupid argument.
Think rather about who is YOURS. Who is your IN-group.
What are you? A Croat? You belong to the Jugoslav world, the wider Slavonic world, the Habsburg world, the Catholic world, Christendom, Europe. When you climb to a level that includes the Jews, the connection seems so distant as to be irrelevant.
Anything European Jews achieved, they achieved it in our environment that WE created. They didn't achieve anything elsewhere, and so we can claim some part in their work anyway. :D But who cares? I am for MY people, and not the 'superior' people, whoever that might be.

Regarding Ashkenazi Jews and their intelligence: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkena...ntelligence.22

I think it's a fairly good and reasonable explanation to their high intelligence, thus their good performance in different fields of science etc.

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Originally Posted by Mercury

Well the thing is their more Semitic cousins such as the Sephardim have significantly less European admixture, and are of average intelligence. Ashkenazis, out of all the Jewish populations, have the most European ancestry and are the most intelligent out of the bunch. I don't think this is can be considered coincidence. But you're questioning why they are so successful compared to the typical white? I wonder if it has something to do with the Jewish religion and the Catholic Church's banning of usury. Perhaps Ashkenazi Jews in Europe were allowed to progress in Mathematics while Europeans were retarded a tad.

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I do not follow you on this usury think. I am not informed. I guess what you are trying to say is that they had to think how to earn money and that they had to use brains and so on... This does not seem plausible, at least to me.

I have always also thought that it has something to do with religion because they think that they are special, Gods chosen people. Growing up thinking you are special can change your psyche a bit but I also think that this is not plausible because as you said it Askhenazi jews are way smarter than Sephardim.

You have to understand that whole Europe was retarded a tad until Guttenberg made the first pressing press in Europe which enabled knowledge to be accesible to everyone. Right after this point came Copernicus, Kepler, Newton and scientific revolution began. Previously all knowledge was accesible only to Church.
So I thought that because they were not subjected to Catholic Church or any other Christian Church they used their brains for some time before scientific revolution. This also does not hold water. Why? Because there was no prominent scientists of Askhenazi origins ( correct me if I am wrong ) until the age of Jacobi ( mathematics ) and Heinrich Hertz ( who was only partially Jewish ). I think that real start of "Jewish" science started with Einstein. So, one can argue that because they were unwanted in Europe throughout centuries that had to adapt to "harsh" environment of hostility. But as I said massive outbursts of Jewish scientists began with Einstein. So, what I want to say is that why it took them so long after scientific revolution to become notable scientists and why only in the last 100 years or so number of Jewish scientists rose unexplainably.
The only logical explanation is that they are intelligent because of European blood but as I said I can not understand how can they be more intelligent than Europeans and even East Asians by far because of only 55% European blood of which 20% is mediterranean.
So I think its both ( european genes and centuries of adaptation in hostile environment ). Yet, this may not be.
Whatever it is they look white and I very intelligent. I do not know what someone else could want them to be.
Its said how an average iq of askhenazi jew is around 130. I mean this is inhuman have this kind of average iq.

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Originally Posted by Osweo

trust me, they didn't learn this RHINELAND variety of German down in the Steppe. :coffee:

They speak Russian now, but spoke Yiddish in living memory. Their surnames are mostly German derived. :coffee:

This is daft.
Forget about who is 'White', which is a very problematic abstract category, open to all sorts of stupid argument.
Think rather about who is YOURS. Who is your IN-group.
What are you? A Croat? You belong to the Jugoslav world, the wider Slavonic world, the Habsburg world, the Catholic world, Christendom, Europe. When you climb to a level that includes the Jews, the connection seems so distant as to be irrelevant.
Anything European Jews achieved, they achieved it in our environment that WE created. They didn't achieve anything elsewhere, and so we can claim some part in their work anyway. :D But who cares? I am for MY people, and not the 'superior' people, whoever that might be.

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Yes, at last some rational member on this forum. That are my thoughts exactly but I can not help to get racial regarding Jews when someone says that they are not white throwing all that scientific legacy out of Europe no matter if they had achieved that legacy in Europe

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Originally Posted by Anachronistic

Avigdor Lieberman:
http://www.imemc.org/attachments/jan..._lieberman.jpg
Do you think he looks Jewish or Russian?

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I don't know about Russian, but he could easily pass as Ukrainian.

The differences between the Ashkenazim and Sephardim have more to do with chance. The former were present when the present capitalist system was evolved in the northwest and central part of Europe. At this time, the Sephardim were scattered all over the place in the Ottoman Empire and so on. Naturally, those who were present while things were going on got on the rollercoaster. Those dallying around in the backwaters just lived and survived like they'd always done.

I heard the Sefardim are doing well in Israel itself however, on the eve of shunting the Ashkenazim aside as the dominant force there. Is my info outdated?

Whatever it is they look white and I very intelligent
instead of I it should be are,
I do not know why I put I instead of are
but never mind that

It doesn't matter whether a lot of Europeans intermarried with Jews, the ones that did effectively abandoned their native cultures and ethnicities as well as bred with non-Euros. Most of these Jews carrying European genes will also have non-Euro ancestry derived from the actual Middle Eastern or Khazar origins of the Jews. I'd love to see the aDNA admixture results.

They are no Europeans.

There is a big misunderstanding that Sephardim Jews are less European than Askhenazim Jews. Their so called European component and West Asian component is the same. The difference is that Sephardim Jews have higher mediterranean component instead east and/or west European.
I do not how many of you knows that Sephardim Jews have way higher percentage of R1b haplogroup than Askhenazi while Askhenazi are autosomally more Western European hence why they are more smarter.

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Originally Posted by Osweo

The differences between the Ashkenazim and Sephardim have more to do with chance. The former were present when the present capitalist system was evolved in the northwest and central part of Europe. At this time, the Sephardim were scattered all over the place in the Ottoman Empire and so on. Naturally, those who were present while things were going on got on the rollercoaster. Those dallying around in the backwaters just lived and survived like they'd always done.

I heard the Sefardim are doing well in Israel itself however, on the eve of shunting the Ashkenazim aside as the dominant force there. Is my info outdated?

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The sephardim, in general, were great mathematitians, writers, scientists, etc... don't know about the others. This is known in every juderia that welcomed them; they boosted culture to a large extent, wherever they went to, even in Morocco; and no I am not a Jews praiser or anything. As far as I know, Sephardim consider their culture much better than Ashkenazies's... in all senses. And I suppose it happens in the opposite direction too.

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Originally Posted by Albion

It doesn't matter whether a lot of Europeans intermarried with Jews, the ones that did effectively abandoned their native cultures and ethnicities as well as bred with non-Euros. Most of these Jews carrying European genes will also have non-Euro ancestry derived from the actual Middle Eastern or Khazar origins of the Jews. I'd love to see the aDNA admixture results.

They are no Europeans.

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But that is the whole point.
As I said for me the most important thing is intelligence and it seems that they pass it through genes. So who cares if they have some middle eastern genes.
Arent Europeans superior because of their creativity and inventivness rather then being simply European

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Originally Posted by Whitebastard

But that is the whole point.
As I said for me the most important thing is intelligence and it seems that they pass it through genes. So who cares if they have some middle eastern genes.
Arent Europeans superior because of their creativity and inventivness rather then being simply European

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Indeed. Ashkenazis are naturally gifted and can only improve the European gene pool. While it's true Ashkenazis have non-white Levantine genes, lets not forget that Levantine admixture in European goes back as early as the Neolithic age. Also, remember the Phoenicians who have set up small trading colonies throughout all of Europe. Mixing with that region of the Middle East is part of our history, plain and simple.

I'm thankful we are at a point where "Jews" are a white ethnicity just like Italian, Irish, or Scottish. The sooner the better, as Ashkenazis won't look at themselves as a separate ethnicity and may not be hostile to European civilization.

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Originally Posted by Albion

It doesn't matter whether a lot of Europeans intermarried with Jews, the ones that did effectively abandoned their native cultures and ethnicities as well as bred with non-Euros. Most of these Jews carrying European genes will also have non-Euro ancestry derived from the actual Middle Eastern or Khazar origins of the Jews. I'd love to see the aDNA admixture results.

They are no Europeans.

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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...DcTZEYlE#gid=0

Considering where most lived, Central and Eastern Europe, the have noticably higher SW Asian.

AJ: 13%
Germans: 1.7%
Belorussians: 1.9%
Lithuanians: 1.6%
Poles: 2.3%
Russians: 1-2%
Ukranians: 3%

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Originally Posted by Whitebastard

But that is the whole point.
As I said for me the most important thing is intelligence and it seems that they pass it through genes. So who cares if they have some middle eastern genes.
Arent Europeans superior because of their creativity and inventivness rather then being simply European

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Brat, forget about 'superiority'. Our race is so 'superior', that many of its members are happy to become minorities in their own lands. Superiority is relative. We've been good at science in recent centuries, but we are shit at self preservation at the present time.

If you worship at the altar of superiority, should you sacrifice your SELF when you find somebody better?

Fuck that. I never invented anything, nor did my family, but I'll support them over ANYBODY else. Wipe the word 'superior' from your vocabulary. It is NOT helpful in our present situation.

Doesn't mean I have to consider them kin.

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Originally Posted by Mercury

Indeed. Ashkenazis are naturally gifted and can only improve the European gene pool.

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What idiocy. Incorporating foreigners produces new generations with mixed loyalties and less attachment to each parent's culture and background. A no-win situation.

Ashkenazi success has a lot to do with their particular way of living and bringing up their kids. When you take the genes from this, and piss about with the culture, you fail.

Your ideas are biological determinism and miss a LOT of the bigger picture.

I'd like to add something about Yiddish that might be found interesting:

Yiddish hasn't been spoken in my family for three generations on my mother's side, and four generations on my father's side. My maternal grandmother told me that her parents only spoke Yiddish when encountering other Ashkenazi Jews who did not speak Romanian. Yiddish was used as a common language amongst European Jews of different nationalities. Native tongues were spoken in the home and in all other occasions.

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Originally Posted by PetiteParisienne

Sephardic Jews are not considered white, especially those from North African countries. Their religious and ethnic practices are very different from those of Ashkenazi Jews, as well.

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If South Italians are considered as white , then so are Sephardi Jews (including those from North Africa who are usually very Frenchized).

Secondly ,there's usually a minsundertood. Many Sephardic Jews were culturally much more West European than Ashkenazim. But since Ashkenazi Jews have a more Germanic culture and are blonder hair , they're usually seen as more "European" but that doesn't mean Sephardi Jews from Netherlands Italy or the upper class of Morocco are less "European" in their way of life. It's just a question of standard for people. A French journalist said that the Sephardi Jewish quarter of Paris in the 70's was much more European-French in flavor than the Ashkenazi one of the 40's , as the latter imposed their Eastern European culture outside their houses , while the former assimilated completely.

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Originally Posted by Whitebastard

But that is the whole point.
As I said for me the most important thing is intelligence and it seems that they pass it through genes. So who cares if they have some middle eastern genes.
Arent Europeans superior because of their creativity and inventivness rather then being simply European

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It makes no sense, other races have creative and inventive minorities but that doesn't make them European.
Being European involves a whole lot more and is very complex like any other race, it involves not only genes but also culture, mentality, physical traits, origins, religion and many other things.

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Originally Posted by PetiteParisienne

Because they are descended from North Africans and Middle Eastern people. The Sephardim from Spain and Portugal can be up for debate, but it's a stretch. Here's a good resource on the differences between Ashkenazim and Sephardim:

http://www.jewfaq.org/ashkseph.htm

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It is a common mistake to chunk the mizrahi jews into the sephardite sack. Bt technically speaking, Sephardi jews refers exclusively to Iberian jews and their descents. Which, for the most part where Caucasoid-looking in the Mediterranean sense and not extremely different from other European meds.

Saying then that "The Sephardim from Spain and Portugal can be up for debate" is laughable in many sense since the Sephardim refers exclusively to those jews that root from Spain and Portugal.

Again, the ones that left for the middle east, would gradually mix with middle easterners and become middle eastern looking (like that gorgeous girl I was lucky enough to date a few times in the mid-late 2000's) . The ones that stayed in Europe would retain their Euro-Mediterranean appearance.

here what sephardic (iberian) jews looked (and look like)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...s_-_mosaic.PNG

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Originally Posted by Osweo

Brat, forget about 'superiority'. Our race is so 'superior', that many of its members are happy to become minorities in their own lands. Superiority is relative. We've been good at science in recent centuries, but we are shit at self preservation at the present time.

If you worship at the altar of superiority, should you sacrifice your SELF when you find somebody better?

Fuck that. I never invented anything, nor did my family, but I'll support them over ANYBODY else. Wipe the word 'superior' from your vocabulary. It is NOT helpful in our present situation.

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You are absolutely right but the difference between me and you is that I am for preservation and for superiority. But not for Hitler like superiority Why? Because in the next 50 or 100 years your grandchildren will not learn german as a foreign language but ching chong chang and indian and we need all intelligence there is to stop this.
You said your family did not invent anything. You are English for crying out loud. As all people of English descent you have big potential. The problem is that you are not exploiting it. That is the reason why China and India are rising.
I want to stop that and I am for preservation of every ethnicity in Europe. I hate word European and I am not European but Croat.
So you see we think alike but I am worried about other things among preservation of ethnicities...

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Originally Posted by PetiteParisienne

I'm not going to say it's impossible, though I know a lot of Sephardic Jews, and I think most would probably be offended if they were referred to as white. :p

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I think you are not really what you claim. In France , Sephardic Jews are seen as white of the mediterranean kind (like italians) . Patrick Bruel , Yvan Attal , Valérie Benguigui , Amélie Bitoun , Ruth Elkrief , Valérie Benhaim , Phillipe Lelouche , Alain Aflelou etc....many other French personallities.

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Originally Posted by Whitebastard

You are absolutely right but the difference between me and you is that I am for preservation and for superiority. But not for Hitler like superiority Why? Because in the next 50 or 100 years your grandchildren will not learn german as a foreign language but ching chong chang and indian and we need all intelligence there is to stop this.
You said your family did not invent anything. You are English for crying out loud. As all people of English descent you have big potential. The problem is that you are not exploiting it. That is the reason why China and India are rising.
I want to stop that and I am for preservation of every ethnicity in Europe. I hate word European and I am not European but Croat.
So you see we think alike but I am worried about other things among preservation of ethnicities...

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I'm all for learning ching chong chang and indian. where are those languages spoken, if I may ask?

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Originally Posted by El Comunero Errante

It is a common mistake to chunk the mizrahi jews into the sephardite sack. Bt technically speaking, Sephardi jews refers exclusively to Iberian jews and their descents. Which, for the most part where Caucasoid-looking in the Mediterranean sense and not extremely different from other European meds.

here what sephardic (iberian) jews looked (and look like)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...s_-_mosaic.PNG

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One of the most famous French singer is a Sephardi Jew from North Africa Patrick Bruel and he is always seen as "white" :
http://lechamoniard.l.e.pic.centerblog.net/kd6cnyjl.jpg

Here are some Sephardi Jewish Pied Noirs :
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...3&postcount=52

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Originally Posted by Joseph Capelli

Genetic differences between Sephardim and Ashkenazic Jews are minimal. They usually form a cluster on genetic maps.

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She claims to be from Paris. But in Paris , Jews are seen as white but not European. The term European is already very ambiguous (the average Parisian don't feel connected to a Lithuanian) and Jews have a different religion , carry different lastnames , so they are seen as their own group, their own case apart

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Originally Posted by El Comunero Errante

It is a common mistake to chunk the mizrahi jews into the sephardite sack. Bt technically speaking, Sephardi jews refers exclusively to Iberian jews and their descents. Which, for the most part where Caucasoid-looking in the Mediterranean sense and not extremely different from other European meds.

Saying then that "The Sephardim from Spain and Portugal can be up for debate" is laughable in many sense since the Sephardim refers exclusively to those jews that root from Spain and Portugal.

Again, the ones that left for the middle east, would gradually mix with middle easterners and become middle eastern looking (like that gorgeous girl I was lucky enough to date a few times in the mid-late 2000's) . The ones that stayed in Europe would retain their Euro-Mediterranean appearance.

here what sephardic (iberian) jews looked (and look like)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...s_-_mosaic.PNG

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Indeed. In Israel though, the Sephardi and Misrachi are classified as 'twin' cultures.

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Originally Posted by Portukalos

She claims to be from Paris. But in Paris , Jews are seen as white but not European. The term European is already very ambiguous (the average Parisian don't feel connected to a Lithuanian) but Jews have a different religion , carry different lastnames , so they are seen as their own group, their own case apart

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I'm from the UK, but my father is from paris, and his side of the family is French and Austrian.

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Originally Posted by PetiteParisienne

I'd like to add something about Yiddish that might be found interesting:

Yiddish hasn't been spoken in my family for three generations on my mother's side, and four generations on my father's side. My maternal grandmother told me that her parents only spoke Yiddish when encountering other Ashkenazi Jews who did not speak Romanian. Yiddish was used as a common language amongst European Jews of different nationalities. Native tongues were spoken in the home and in all other occasions.

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That only takes us to around 1900. Very recent. The situation in the shtetls of the former Recz Pospolitas was quite different.

here is my view, in a nutshell-

I really couldn't be bothered if their eyes are bluer than sapphires or if their hair is blonder than a polar bear's ass.


Being European involves MUCH more than just genetics- it's a culture, mentality, and way of life that Jews lack.

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Originally Posted by Portukalos

If South Italians are considered as white , then so are Sephardi Jews (including those from North Africa who are usually very Frenchized).

Secondly ,there's usually a minsundertood. Many Sephardic Jews were culturally much more West European than Ashkenazim. But since Ashkenazi Jews have a more Germanic culture and are blonder hair , they're usually seen as more "European" but that doesn't mean Sephardi Jews from Netherlands Italy or the upper class of Morocco are less "European" in their way of life. It's just a question of standard for people. A French journalist said that the Sephardi Jewish quarter of Paris in the 70's was much more European-French in flavor than the Ashkenazi one of the 40's , as the latter imposed their Eastern European culture outside their houses , while the former assimilated completely.

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In today's world, a lot of it hinges upon how religious a Jewish person is. An Ashkenazi Jew who is minimally religious or completely secular is indistinguishable from a European gentile. The same can be said for a secular Sephardic Jew of of predominantly Spanish or Portuguese heritage. Iranian Jews also consider themselves to be Sephardic. It's not just about genetics and appearance, but also about customs. Sephardic traditions and food are very different from Ashkenazi ones.

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Originally Posted by El Comunero Errante

I'm all for learning ching chong chang and indian. where are those languages spoken, if I may ask?

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I am surprised that British act like this. British culture touched almost every culture in the world to some point. In some time chinese culture will touch yours. Then you wont act like this. I do not care nor about yours nor chinese but if it has to be any id rather choose british.
China and whole asians are on rise.
So you see I am not for preservation of someones culture on some other indirect way.
As I have said on some thread before I know a lot people Croats or foreign who are so obsessed with Japanese culture that their wear kimono inside the house all the time. That is total opposite of what this forum stands for.
No one thinks about this.

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Originally Posted by PetiteParisienne

Indeed. In Israel though, the Sephardi and Misrachi are classified as 'twin' cultures.

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"Mizrahi culture" just doesn't exist. A Goergian Jew doesn't share the same culture as an Iraqi Jew , randomly taken.

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Originally Posted by PetiteParisienne

In today's world, a lot of it hinges upon how religious a Jewish person is. An Ashkenazi Jew who is minimally religious or completely secular is indistinguishable from a European gentile. The same can be said for a secular Sephardic Jew of of predominantly Spanish or Portuguese heritage. Iranian Jews also consider themselves to be Sephardic. It's not just about genetics and appearance, but also about customs. Sephardic traditions and food are very different from Ashkenazi ones.

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The problem is that an Iranian Jew is not a Sephardi , it's just a minsunderstood from your own. Anyway , food and traditions are of course very different since Ashkenazis lived amongst Germans and Slavs.

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Originally Posted by Portukalos

"Mizrahi culture" just doesn't exist. A Goergian Jew doesn't share the same culture as an Iraqi Jew , randomly taken.

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Exactly my point. It's very different. One of my close friends is a Sephardic Jew of Iraqi and Iranian descent. She and a Jew for Georgia would not have much in common at all.

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Originally Posted by PetiteParisienne

I'm from the UK, but my father is from paris, and his side of the family is French and Austrian.

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Is your farther part French of Jewish background or ethnic French Catholic ?

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Originally Posted by Hess

here is my view, in a nutshell-

I really couldn't be bothered if their eyes are bluer than sapphires or if their hair is blonder than a polar bear's ass.


Being European involves MUCH more than just genetics- it's a culture, mentality, and way of life that Jews lack.

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Which Jews? The Hasidic? Definitely. The Orthodox? Yes. The Reform? A little.

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Originally Posted by Portukalos

Is your farther part French of Jewish background or ethnic French Catholic ?

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My father was born in France. His parents were born in France. Two of their grandparents were born in France, one other was from Romania, and the last was from Austria. There have been gentiles in my family, as well as apostates and converts to and from Judaism. But no one in my family has been born outside of Europe.

And Catholicism came long after paganism in France.