Scytho-Turkic Z93 branch Z2125 vs. Indo-Aryan migration theory

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Originally Posted by Vir9

alans were probably diverse looking people who assimilated various non-iranic tribes during their migrations. I think the orginial alans were predominately r1a like other scythians or sarmartians but they assimilated a huge number of caucasian people when they settled in the caucasus. Alans more in the north and far away from the caucasus had probably more r1a and were lighter. Alans were nomadic people and nomadic people often incorporated defeated tribes into their own tribal confederations. So many alans had probably also caucasian ancestry and some tests have shown that medieval alans carried already haplogroup G2 like modern ossetians. Haplogroup G2 is in this case clearly of caucasian and not of iranic origin because the oldest iranic people were almost entirely dominated by r1a and haplogroup G2 is very common among non-iranic caucasian people.

After the turkic and mongolic invasion most alans were either killed or assimilated by turks. Only the few alans who stayed in more mountainous regions survived this genocide and here they again mixed much with caucasians so that only few of them carry r1a today

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Alans were a tribal group of Sarmatians. The subgroup of G2a to which the Alans belonged was actually also found in Central Asia. There are even theories that this subgroup of G2a was brought to Caucasus by Alans. Alanic burials on the Don River were by majority G2a.

Alans were diverse in some Haplogroups. G2a beeing more dominant in Caucasus and Western Alans can be explained with bottleneck effect.

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Originally Posted by Demhat

Zaza are a Kurdish tribe.

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Don't be so sure about that. Zaza's i know say they are iranic but never accept the kurdish identity. There are some other who accept it though.

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Originally Posted by Ice

Don't be so sure about that. Zaza's i know say they are iranic but never accept the kurdish identity. There are some other who accept it though.

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You totally convinced me. A Turks words are the first I believe. And since you also seem to know more Zaza as I do. Since I totally have no contact to them in comparison to Turks who are their West and Central Anatolian neighbors, your words have more value.

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Originally Posted by Vir9

he has r1a like the earliest indo-iranian people and scythian and which real mongolic haplogroup you have??? E, G, or J ?

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Don't feed the donkey. ;)
it's probably his own unlce :D. Too much shit going on in the family line.

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Originally Posted by Demhat

You pure little troll. There is a Kurdish tribe of Alans in Sirnak, Van, Mahabad and Iraqi Kurdistan and Zaza are a Kurdish tribe. But I understand your butthurtness took over your mind once again.

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I do not care Kurdish boy, if you say so, then it must be true, of course.

bump

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Originally Posted by Demhat

You totally convinced me. A Turks words are the first I believe. And since you also seem to know more Zaza as I do. Since I totally have no contact to them in comparison to Turks your words have more value.

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I don't get the irony. But yes i know many zaza's from Elazig. I also know a lot about Kurds, their mentality and way of thinking. I can also hear the difference between kurmanci and zazaki.

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Originally Posted by Vir9

he has r1a like the earliest indo-iranian people and scythian and which real mongolic haplogroup you have??? E, G, or J ?

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interesting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3SsQx1a9sI

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Originally Posted by Kipchak Håkan

think more in the Nostratic way, then the world becomes easier... :)

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Nostratic is too far fetched. Few scholars accept it, even less can define it.

You can go down the same path and argue that all humans spoke the same language in the past... And???

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Originally Posted by Vir9

yes i also think it was a result of a bottleneck effect. Alans had no presence in central asia

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Well actually there was presence of Alans in Central Asia. It is even said that they came from there, as we know from historic sources.

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and the subclades of g2 in central asia are different from that in the caucasus so it can been excluded that alans brought it into to the caucasus. G2 is also predominant among non-iranic caucasians and is rather an older pre-indoeuropean marker which can not be linked to early sarmatians and scythians. The early alans had most likely r1a but they were mostly killed or assimilated by turks and only few survived who mixed with caucasians

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I think you slightly misunderstood. The subclade to which Alans belong is also found in Central Asia too. In the Caucasus it is not connected to one Caucasic language group, but to all the Caucasians in the West who had been historically in contact with Alans. Such as Circassians/Abkhazians and Georgians. The one group is Kartvelian the other Northwest Caucasian. So some people have the theory that a large chunck of the G2a there is brought by Alans.

I simply believe that the original Alans in Central Asia were R1a*, G2a, R1b*, J2a1 mixed. And a group of them moved into the Caucasus and this group coincidently was predominantly G2a (bottleneck effect).