Where did haplogroup E1b1b in Europeans come from?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cristiano viejo

Around 40% of Pasiegos are m81.

---

Well overall theyre not even remotely 40% North African. So obviously just some founder effect going on.



Btw read this study. In the Bronze age "nearly 100%" of Iberian samples had steppe R1 lineages. So my guess is most E-M81 in Iberia comes after the Bronze age.

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/363/6432/1230


I don't see why you give much of a shit about possibly having a few drops of Berber ancestry. The Numidians were great cavalrymen and played a major role in destroying some of Rome's biggest armies under Hannibal. Also the later Moors had an advanced culture. These weren't 75 IQ people living in mud huts. Nor would they have even looked all that different from Celts and Iberians.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daos777

Depends on the clade.

But for the most part those clades are "Northern" by which I mean they separated from the ancestor of the Balkan branch a long time ago. Balkan people such as Illyrians, Greeks, Thracians were not the people who brought it there. It was an earlier culture. If the majority of E-V13 subclades in the North were balkan ones what you're saying would make sense.

---

Well.The Romans never made it to Sweden. They did what is now Bavaria and Austria though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arch Hades

Well overall theyre not even remotely 40% North African. So obviously just some founder effect going on.



Btw read this study. In the Bronze age Iberian samples "nearly 100%" of Iberian samples had steppe R1 lineages. So my guess is most E-M81 in Iberia comes after the Bronze age.

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/363/6432/1230


I don't see why you give much of a shit about possibly having a few drops of Berber ancestry. The Numidians were great calverymen and played a major role in destroying some of Rome's biggest armies under Hannibal. Also the later Moors had an advanced culture. These weren't 75 IQ people living in mud huts. Nor would they have even looked all that different from Celts and Iberians.

---

The later moors were as retarded as any moor That You could imagine. It is a myth that they were advanced. If they were it, why were thy defeated, to start? :rolleyes:

If they were it, why and How did such advances disappear? A Benjamin button racial case maybe? :laugh:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cristiano viejo

The later moors were as retarded as any moor That You could imagine. It is a myth that they were advanced. If they were it, why were thy defeated, to start? :rolleyes:

If they were it, why and How did such advances disappear? A Benjamin button racial case maybe? :laugh:

---

The same as what happened to the Spanish empire. Spain had the 4th biggest empire in world history now they just have Spain. How did Spanish military might dissapear?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arch Hades

Well.The Romans never made it to Sweden. They did what is now Bavaria and Austria though.

---

Mycanaean Greeks did excursions to Sweden though

I don't know if you have heard about that but there have been found Ancient Inscriptions in Mycanaean in Sweden

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cristiano viejo

Cantabrian Pasiegos are m81 and they have fuxkingly nothing to do with North Africans.

---

I know... 22% of galicians have J2 and a decent bunch in Lugo (where my last name comes) have R1b-L21, guess what they have in common with greeks and limeys: Nothing.

The curious thing is how the fuck that happend, even the case of the pasiegos are more curious, being like an hybrid of basques and burgalese castillians genetically.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nassbean

here we go let's just pretend the stats are false and that north africans never settled in Iberia ...e1b1b are all from neolithic farmers even though none of the copper age samples had this haplogroup.

---

I4246, Bell Beaker, 2473-2030 cal BCE
mtDNA: E1b1b1a(xE1b1b1a1)

Our Copper Age dataset includes a newly reported male (I4246) from Camino de las Yeseras (14) in central Iberia, radiocarbon dated to 2473–2030 calibrated years BCE, who clusters with modern and ancient North Africans in the PCA and, like ~3000 BCE Moroccans, can be well modeled as having ancestry from both Late Pleistocene North Africans and Early Neolithic Europeans.

Waaaaaaaaay old E1b... Before the arrive of the Bell-Beakers (R1b-DF27) and the Celts (R1b-DF27 & R1b-U152). This people (E1b) mixed with EEF and the WHG, and there is our small iberomaurusian (or a big part of it) explained. Of course the celts made it smaller, and that´s it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rocinante

I know... 22% of galicians have J2 and a decent bunch in Lugo (where my last name comes) have R1b-L21, guess what they have in common with greeks and limeys: Nothing.

The curious thing is how the fuck that happend, even the case of the pasiegos are more curious, being like an hybrid of basques and burgalese castillians genetically.



I4246, Bell Beaker, 2473-2030 cal BCE
mtDNA: E1b1b1a(xE1b1b1a1)

Our Copper Age dataset includes a newly reported male (I4246) from Camino de las Yeseras (14) in central Iberia, radiocarbon dated to 2473–2030 calibrated years BCE, who clusters with modern and ancient North Africans in the PCA and, like ~3000 BCE Moroccans, can be well modeled as having ancestry from both Late Pleistocene North Africans and Early Neolithic Europeans.

Waaaaaaaaay old E1b... Before the arrive of the Bell-Beakers (R1b-DF27) and the Celts (R1b-DF27 & R1b-U152). This people (E1b) mixed with EEF and the WHG, and there is our small iberomaurusian (or a big part of it) explained. Of course the celts made it smaller, and that´s it.

---

On PCA in genome wide affinity he clusters with Late Neolithic Morrocans. They aren't really in the European zone genetically. These aren't the same as the Sardinian like farmers who settled Europe.

Anyway, this guy precedes the Steppe incursion into Iberia. And lastly E1b1b1a is not E1b1b-M81.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arch Hades

On PCA in genome wide affinity he clusters with Late Neolithic Morrocans. They aren't really in the European zone genetically. These aren't the same as the Sardinian like farmers who settled Europe.

Anyway, this guy precedes the Steppe incursion into Iberia. And lastly E1b1b1a is not E1b1b-M81.

---

How were Late Neolithic Moroccans? Let's see how it was:

Target: MAR_LN:KEB.4
Distance: 2.9750% / 0.02975041
65.8 Anatolia_Barcin_N
27.0 MAR_Taforalt
5.8 Levant_Natufian
1.4 ITA_Villabruna

Nothing less tham 67% european according my ancient components model. This E-M78 was technically an EEF with strong iberomaurisian ancestry, and surprisingly, levantine farmer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rocinante

I know... 22% of galicians have J2 and a decent bunch in Lugo (where my last name comes) have R1b-L21, guess what they have in common with greeks and limeys: Nothing.

The curious thing is how the fuck that happend, even the case of the pasiegos are more curious, being like an hybrid of basques and burgalese castillians genetically.



I4246, Bell Beaker, 2473-2030 cal BCE
mtDNA: E1b1b1a(xE1b1b1a1)

Our Copper Age dataset includes a newly reported male (I4246) from Camino de las Yeseras (14) in central Iberia, radiocarbon dated to 2473–2030 calibrated years BCE, who clusters with modern and ancient North Africans in the PCA and, like ~3000 BCE Moroccans, can be well modeled as having ancestry from both Late Pleistocene North Africans and Early Neolithic Europeans.

Waaaaaaaaay old E1b... Before the arrive of the Bell-Beakers (R1b-DF27) and the Celts (R1b-DF27 & R1b-U152). This people (E1b) mixed with EEF and the WHG, and there is our small iberomaurusian (or a big part of it) explained. Of course the celts made it smaller, and that´s it.

---

you're dishonest this individual was unique among the other samples from the same era simply because he was north african not a local iberian. So again try to find a copper or bronze age sample with e1b1b good luck

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rocinante

How were Late Neolithic Moroccans? Let's see how it was:

Target: MAR_LN:KEB.4
Distance: 2.9750% / 0.02975041
65.8 Anatolia_Barcin_N
27.0 MAR_Taforalt
5.8 Levant_Natufian
1.4 ITA_Villabruna

Nothing less tham 67% european according my ancient components model. This E-M78 was technically an EEF with strong iberomaurisian ancestry, and surprisingly, levantine farmer.

---

He clusters with both modern and late neolithic moroccans

as you can see he's very close to me :

Distance to: Nassbean_scaled
0.07035651 Iberia_Central_CA_Afr:I4246

Very similar :

https://i.imgur.com/lHubB1v.png



if this haplogroup was mainly brought by EEF we would have at least found the same amount of it all over southern europe but that's not the case there is a big contrast between iberia and other parts of Europe and no copper or bronze samples had this haplogroup + EEF themselves rarely had this Haplogroup. So as I said most of it came directly from north africa during ancient and medieval times ( Punic, roman and moorish presence).