Dodecad k12b West, Central & South Asian results Vol. 2

Here are Dodecad k12b results of 467 Turks (except them, there are other groups too)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...pbY/edit#gid=0

There has been added new samples and shockingly there are even 3 samples which are 20% Mongoloid! :shocked:

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Originally Posted by Kyp Snow

Could be



Btw what's the reason for the Iranian shift of this region? There are cities to the east who show much less Iranian shift (Kayseri, Nigde, Tokat etc..) and they also have lower East Eurasian than Kirsehir.
Cities to the west have similar East Eurasian but less Iranian character.

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Yes i also noticed that for example Kirsehir has a bit more Gedrosia than a Turk with the same east asian admix, but about the cities Nigde and Tokat i have not many knowledge. Tokat had also some oghuz settlemets and there lived an Armenian community, also it has a numerous Muhacir(especially Circissian) community. Sora comes from there maybe she can say a bit more. Whether Nigde had oghuz settlements or not, that is a difficult question, i know more about Aksaray-Kirikkale-Ankara-Kirsehir-Yozgat area. Kayseri was always a place with heterogeneous population, you know there are many Afshars, but due history there were many others. Kirsehir(and the other cities of the neighborhood) for example, although there are traces of other civilizations, were at the arrival of the first Turks not or really sparsely populated.

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Originally Posted by Bender1999

Yes i also noticed that for example Kirsehir has a bit more Gedrosia than a Turk with the same east asian admix, but about the cities Nigde and Tokat i have not many knowledge. Tokat had also some oghuz settlemets and there lived a Armenian community, also it has a numerous Muhacir(especially Circissian) community. Sora comes from there maybe she can say a bit more. Whether Nigde had oghuz settlements or not, that is a difficult question, i know more about Aksaray-Kirikkale-Ankara-Kirsehir-Yozgat area. Kayseri was always a place with heterogeneous population, you know there are many Afshars, but due history there were many others. Kirsehir(and the other cities of the neighborhood) for example, although there are traces of other civilizations, were at the arrival of the first Turks not or really sparsely populated.

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Indeed Tokat samples have a bit more Gedrosian & South Asian than Western Anatolian cities. Also Mongoloid admixture in Tokat samples can vary from 4%-12%, the 4% Mongoloid Tokat sample may be mixed because Tokat has some Erzurum community and people from Erzurum have 0%-3% Mongoloid. Except that sample, Tokat samples can vary from 7%-12%.

There are also Circassian(other Caucasians as well) & Kurdish/Zaza populations in Tokat. Main guesstimate is that Tokat is 85% Turkish, 15% Caucasian(Circassian, Abkhaz etc.) and 5% Kurdish & Zaza.

I've also posted this at my previous entry:

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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...pbY/edit#gid=0

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Originally Posted by Sora

Indeed Tokat samples have a bit more Gedrosian & South Asian than Western Anatolian cities. Also Mongoloid admixture in Tokat samples can vary from 4%-12%, the 4% Mongoloid Tokat sample may be mixed because Tokat has some Erzurum community and people from Erzurum have 0%-3% Mongoloid. Except that sample, Tokat samples can vary from 7%-12%.

There are also Circassian(other Caucasians as well) & Kurdish/Zaza populations in Tokat. Main guesstimate is that Tokat is 85% Turkish, 15% Caucasian(Circassian, Abkhaz etc.) and 5% Kurdish & Zaza.

I've also posted this at my previous entry:

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My question was about Kirsehir/Kirikkale. Scoring around 18% Gedrosian and +2 South Asian seems pretty common there. Which is approaching Azerbaijani levels.
Tokat looks a bit more Black SeaA/Armenian influenced instead of Iranian.

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Originally Posted by Kyp Snow

My question was about Kirsehir/Kirikkale. Scoring around 18% Gedrosian and +2 South Asian seems pretty common there. Which is approaching Azerbaijani levels.
Tokat looks a bit more Black SeaA/Armenian influenced instead of Iranian.

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Most probably because some Turks who arrived there came from Azerbaijan or Chorasan, this is the only explanation for me.

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Originally Posted by Kyp Snow

My question was about Kirsehir/Kirikkale. Scoring around 18% Gedrosian and +2 South Asian seems pretty common there. Which is approaching Azerbaijani levels.
Tokat looks a bit more Black Sea/Armenian influenced instead of Iranian.

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Yes, Kırşehir & Kırıkkale have more Gedrosian + South Asian than regular Turk. I guess it's due to Iranian ancestry as you said. And the Gedrosian + South Asian ancestry grows up as we go to Eastern provinces such as Sivas, Erzincan, Elazığ, Kahramanmaraş, Malatya etc. Not to mention Kars & Iğdır because those are mainly Azeri so it's normal they score more Gedrosian + South Asian

Also the cause of Iranian ancestry can be told like those:
1) They came from Khorasan or Azerbaijan as Bender1999 said
2) Some Seljuk Sultans or Anatolian "bey"s married to Iranian women (but most Anatolian Seljuk Sultans married to Greek & Georgian women)
3) Some Iranians came to Anatolia alongside with Turks (for example: Rumi) and they mixed with each other

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Originally Posted by Sora

Here are Dodecad k12b results of 467 Turks (except them, there are other groups too)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...pbY/edit#gid=0

There has been added new samples and shockingly there are even 3 samples which are 20% Mongoloid! :shocked:

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And there are like 20 who are not Mongoloid at all :confused: What's up with those? Are they even ethnic Turks? (I really have no idea this is why I'm asking this).

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Originally Posted by Chris596

And there are like 20 who are not Mongoloid at all What's up with those? :confused: Are they even ethnic Turks? (I really have no idea this is why I'm asking this).

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They're mainly assimilated or mixed. Especially Eastern Black Sea Turks from Trabzon, Rize, Artvin are indeed assimilated native Caucasians(didn't tell Pontic Greeks because they're Hellenized natives indeed). And Eastern Anatolian Turks are either assimilated Kurds/Iranians/Armenians/Assyrians or mix of those groups with Turks.

But their neighbours Central Black Sea Turks(neighbour of Eastern ones) & Azeris(neighbours of Eastern Anatolians) are mixture of Oghuz & Iranics/Native Anatolians. Especially Central Black Sea Turks from Kürtün(northwestern district of Gümüşhane), Ordu, northern Giresun & western Trabzon have at least 10% Mongoloid due to they're mainly Chepni(an Oghuz clan mainly live in Black Sea, and also my paternal grandfather-RIP- was one of them)

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Originally Posted by Sora

They're mainly assimilated or mixed. Especially Eastern Black Sea Turks from Trabzon, Rize, Artvin are indeed assimilated native Caucasians(didn't tell Pontic Greeks because they're Hellenized natives indeed). And Eastern Anatolian Turks are either assimilated Kurds/Iranians/Armenians/Assyrians or mix of those groups with Turks.

But their neighbours Central Black Sea Turks(neighbour of Eastern ones) & Azeris(neighbours of Eastern Anatolians) are mixture of Oghuz & Iranics/Native Anatolians. Especially Central Black Sea Turks from Kürtün(northwestern district of Gümüşhane), Ordu, northern Giresun & western Trabzon have at least 10% Mongoloid due to they're mainly Chepni(an Oghuz clan mainly live in Black Sea, and also my paternal grandfather-RIP- was one of them)

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Do you think you are mostly "assimilated"?

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Originally Posted by Sora

Yes, Kırşehir & Kırıkkale have more Gedrosian + South Asian than regular Turk. I guess it's due to Iranian ancestry as you said. And the Gedrosian + South Asian ancestry grows up as we go to Eastern provinces such as Sivas, Erzincan, Elazığ, Kahramanmaraş, Malatya etc. Not to mention Kars & Iğdır because those are mainly Azeri so it's normal they score more Gedrosian + South Asian

Also the cause of Iranian ancestry can be told like those:
1) They came from Khorasan or Azerbaijan as Bender1999 said
2) Some Seljuk Sultans or Anatolian "bey"s married to Iranian women (but most Anatolian Seljuk Sultans married to Greek & Georgian women)
3) Some Iranians came to Anatolia alongside with Turks (for example: Rumi) and they mixed with each other

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Kirsehir was, like konya(you named Rumi) one if the cultural hotspots of Anatolia in 11-15th century. The city was called Gülsehir(city of roses/flowers) , the nomadic and village people call it kır şehri(other say the name comes from Timur) because of the landscape. For a important city you need some officials, which were mostly persian speaking. Also scholars and preachers were sometimes of full or partly persian ancestry(Rumi was for example half Tadjik half noble Turkic ancestry). But how or even whether they left any genetic traces, thats the question.