Are you Russophobic?
Why would you even care if you live in America?
I've talked to Aspirin, he's neither pro nor anti-Russian. Believe me, you don't have be either for or against a country in most cases.
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Are you dumb? Wallachian is an exonym. Everyone (outside Moldova and Wallachia) called Moldovans Wallachians. Even the founders of Moldova were called Wallachians.
Moldovans used both Moldovan and Romanian to refer to themselves, there are countless accounts for either one.
A lot do, especially in Chisinau and even more think that Moldovan and Romanian are synonyms. Unfortunately the census doesn't do the latter justice.
https://statistica.gov.md/public/fil...arti/Etnie.jpg
ha ha ha. Seal of Petru Rares? "Peceatī io Romana voevoda Zemle Moldavscoi" Russian for "Seal of io Roman, voivode of the Moldavian Land". Roman was the fourth ruler of Moldavia, the grandson of the great Bogdan, the father of the Moldavian state. Roman was originally a greek name, but later it was used almost exclusively by the ortodox slavs.
You missed the point, Moldavians called Moldova - Moldova (sometimes with the latinized form Moldavia), while valahians called their supposed country as Ungrovlahia, Tara Munteneasca, Valahia and Tara Rumaneasca. That's four names. Also moldavians used Moldova as the name of the country even when they were writing in other languages while valahians were calling on occasions their country Transalpina when writing in latin, for example.Quote:
No it wasn't. The name "Moldova" also had a mostly internal use. Ottomans, who at that time were the suzerains of Moldova, used to call it Boğdan, or even funnier Kuēuk-Eflak, meaning Little Wallachia. Poles, who were also sometimes suzerains in Moldova would call Moldovan rulers Wallachian princes. Polish medieval chronicler Leonard Goreck refers to Ioan Voda cel Cumplit, a Moldovan ruler, "Palatini Valachiae" meaning Wallachian Prince, and would often call various Moldovan personalities as Wallachian, which they obviously were.
Nobody with more than a brain cell will accept blatant lies.
The story of how some of the moldavians became romanians in a nut shell:
Istoria Țării Rumānești dintru īnceput (1716) by Constantin Cantacuzino
Deci, care iaste bine și direaptă, pe ia stă așa nemișcată, iar care greșită și smintită iaste, trebuie cei ce mai bine vor ști, de acel lucru să īndreptéze și să direagă. Īnsă de către amiazăzi Dachia să hotăraște cu Dunărea, și de cătră apus, zice Filip, cu apa ce să chiamă Patisul, īntru care hotară, cuprindu-să astăzi, zice, partea a Țării Ungurești, mai sus zisa și Ardealul și Valahia (adecăte țara aceasta) și Moldova. Īnsă vlahii, acești gheografi și mai toți istoricii cāți scriu de aceste țări, zicea și Moldovei și ceștiia; apoi o īmparte īn doao, una de sus; alta de jos, īi zic. Le zic și: mai mare și mai mică; cea de sus, adecăte și mai mare, Moldova; cea de jos și mai mică, țara această Muntenească numeind, cum īi zic mai mulți așa; că Rumānească numai lăcuitorii ei o chiamă, și doar unii den ardeleni ăiī rumāni, pentru că și aceia și ceștea numai cānd să īntreabă, ce iaste? Ei răspund: rumāni; iar moldovénii să osebesc de să răspund: moldovani, săvai că și ei sunt de un neam și de un rod cu ceștea, cum mai nainte mai pre larg vom arăta cu mărturiile multora.
Beside the funny fact that a valahian historian called his country with three names in the same paragraph, we find out that moldavians were not calling themselves rumani even in that era (1639-1716). A well known fact. Looking in the moldavian documents, the moldavians were always calling themselves moldovan, with the plural moldoveni, never rumani or even moldovean. Moldovean is a valahian word, never used by the moldavians, as the moldavians were speaking their own moldavian language and not the valahian one. That was till the valahians, with the help of the usual traitors and fools, manage to occupy the principality Moldavia and destroy the brains of the people there.
So when did the moldavians, actually only some fools, became romanians? Not rumani, but the artificial 19 century invention romani.
Well, it is the work of the so called pasoptisti that paved the destruction of the Principality of Moldavia. They did step by step what the unionists bastards are doing since the 1990s in Republic of Moldova with limited success as there is democracy nowadays, and the traitors have a hard time doing their accursed work. In a text published in 1852 we found out exactly what the pasoptisti did.
Este o vorbă țărănească, ce seamănă a fi īn Moldova de cānd Papură-Vodă: "sireacu Ștefan vodă, unde-i să vadă?" Această vorbă mult m-a muncit cu gāndul, care n-am vreme să le spui toate, decāt unul. Īmi īnchipuiesc cāteodată că a ieșit din mormānt un strămoș de ai noștri, un vornic de Țara de Sus, un boier de Orhei, un hatman, un căpitan de tārg, sau măcar cel mai ascuns postelnicel din Adunarea țării, care a iscălit dezrobirea vecinilor la 1772, īn biserica Trei-Sfinților. Oare hatmanul acela ar putea să-și cunoască urmașii īn oamenii de astăzi?... Hainele, năravurile, pămāntul au luat prefacere... pānă și numele. Astăzi nu mai suntem fiii hatmanului Baltag sau ai căpitanului Dragomir, dară domnul de Baltag, domnul de Dragomir, domnul de Lozonschi. Cāt despre Ștefan vodă, īi mai ușoară treaba. Lozonscheștii, Dragomireștii s-ar mira, Ștefan vodă s-ar crede īn țară străină.
Īntāi și-ntāi, de-ar mai putea veni un Ștefan vodă pe calul lui cel voinic de la Valea Albă, de la tārgul Băii, din codrii Bārladului, de la Dumbrava Roșie, sunt īncredințat că nu l-am īnțelege... vorba lui n-ar fi vorba noastră!... Văd parcă īn foiletonul Zimbrului imnul următor: "Erou ilustru, trompeta gloriei tale penetră animile bravilor romani de admirăciune grandioasă și indifinisabilă pentru meritul neinninvincinibilităciunei tale!..." Și alte cauze și mai frumoase, la care bietul Ștefan ar holba ochii lui cei īnfricoșați... tare mi-i teamă că īn ziua de pe urmă, cānd trāmbița cerească ne va chema la judecata cea mare, nu ne vom putea īnțelege cu strămoșii noștri, nici īn limbă, nici īn idee —Moldova s-a schimbat īn 16 ani (1835-1852) din talpă pānă īn vārv: limbă, haine, obiceiuri, pānă și numele... nu mai suntem moldoveni, ci romāni.
Moldavians in Basarabia were lucky to escape the destruction. From an 1814 letter addressed to the russian czar, written in moldavian and signed by the great boyars, we find out exactly who was the nation inhabiting the land, what language they spoke and what language was used in the official documents (all the archives of Moldavia). For example, regarding the language.
”… Prin pontul al 19-le a acei īn scris vremelniceşti obrazovanii făcute de către D Admiral Ciceagov pentru īnchipuirea ocīrmuirii oblastului Basarabiei ce cuprinde, ca toate pricinile īntru această Eparhie să se caute şi să se puie īn lucrare īn limba rosienească şi moldovenească a pămīntului. Acest de pe urmă cuprinzătorul de milostivire priveleghiuri de a se căuta toate pricinile īn limba moldovenească a pămīntului, fie īndurarea ce īnaltă a Măririi voastre a se īntări spre a păzi pentru de-a purure, căci toate arhivele Moldaviei nu sīnt īntr-altă limbă decīt īn dreaptă limba moldovenească. Toate documenturile pentru moşii şi pentru feliuri de giudecăți şi īnvoiele sīnt alcătuite numai īn limba moldovenească. Tot norodul acestei oblasti nu are īnţelegere altei limbi decīt a patriei sale. Aşadar fiind, dacă pricinile se vor căuta īntr-altă limbă mulţi dintre noi putem pierde drepturile noastre, neputīnd bine a le descoperi īn limba necunoscută nouă. Mulţi pot cade şi īn feliuri de īnvinovăţiri, iscălind documenturi pe care nu le īnţelegem, şi multe din documenturile ce avem vor lua prefacere īn puterea cuvintelor, cīnd se vor tălmăci īntr-altă limbă.
Adevărul acesta mai īnainte l-au cunoscut pătrunzătoarea īnţelepciune a iubirii voastre de oameni şi au dăruit şi megieşilor noştri şi altor noroade, care cu puterea nebiruitelor arme a pravoslaviei s-au supus Monarhicescului vostru scliiptru a se ocīrmiui īn limba Patriei lor. Cu asemine nemărginită milă ne rugăm să fim şi noi īmpărtăşiţi… ”
Ilie Catargiul; spătar Ioan Başotă; Dimitrie Rīşcan; Constantin Şeicovici, maior; Iordachi Bucşenescu; loan Sturdza, spătar; Teodor Başotă, ban; Ştefan Rīşcan, comis; Toma Stamati, paharnic; Neculai Catargiul, paharnic; Petrache Catargiul, paharnic; Matei Rīşcan, stolnic; Vasile lamandi; Nicolai Doni, paharnic; Alexandru Panaiti, comis; Ştefănache Rali, căminar; Coste Jiccea; lancu Vasiliu; Manolache Negruţi; loan Strezescu; Toader Măcărescu, serdar; Simion Glavce, jicnicer; Pavli Măcărescu,serdar; Paveli Măcărescu, postelnic;Toma Paninopolo; Vasile Caţichi; Gheorghe Sala, vtor. vistiernic; gubernskii secretar loan Ganea; Constantin Budescu, armaş; Costache Başotă; Ştefan Teodorii, porucic; Teodosie, pitar; Alecul sīn Neculai Grecul; Dimitrie Sala; Căsian Suruceanu, pitar; Ioniţă Suruceanu; Niculai Dumbravă; Lupu Roset, medelnicer; Dimitrache Melega, vornic de poartă; Grigore Ursu; Enachi Izmană; Vasile Chirica, postelnicel; Pavel Chirica, postelnicel; Iordache Grec, postelnicel; Manolache Rusu; Stati Şendrea, căpitan; lordachi Alexandri, şatrar; Iordache Teodor, sulger; llie Botezatul, pitar; lsaia Lupu; loan lamandi,titulearnīi sovetnic; loan Sechiraş, Constandachi Sterpu; Neculai Rusu.
1814 anul, iunie 5, īn Chişinău.”
Checkmate!
I wonder which ones. Don't wanna start a debate but the Russian Empire is one thing, the USSR (which was dominated by Jews and other minorities and caused tremendous losses and suffering among the Russian population) is another thing. Putin's Russia is also different (total shit in my opinion). Again, I don't wanna assume too much but you are probably an unreflective supporter of globalization, neoliberalism and US/EU imperialism/cultural hegemony. But God forbid some Moldovans are friendly towards Russia. I personally support national languages and cultures which in the case of Moldova means Romanian. I don't think speaking an ugly mixture of languages like IB described is a good thing.
that Botosani dude is an acquaintance of mine - his father is from Botosani county countryside, a village where some of the people have Ukrainian last name (-iuc ending mostly) but they don't know of any Ukrainian (Ruthenian/Russian) origin. his mom is from Iasi county, therefore Romanian from Moldova region. he certainly genetically looks like an approx 50-50 mix of southwestern Ukrainian and northeastern Romanian. maybe his village was originally Ruthenian and got Romanianized by the 20th century. in Botosani county there's a whole lot of people with Ukrainian-origin last name.
in spite of his probable Ukrainian origin through paternal side, he is a Vlach-centric Romanian nationalist xD and pan-Balkanist in the idea that all Balkanites are Romanized Dacians/Thracians/Illyrians that then got either Slavicized either continued with Romanian (Vlach) either with their ancestral language (like Albanians). he also places Balkans as up to southern Poland (considers Gorals, Hutsuls, Rusyns to be Vlachs). so basically he considers all Balkanites have an Albanian-like genetic, ethnic and cultural background, which was only slightly displaced genetically/ethnically/culturally, but overall all the Balkanites are rather closely related than not, genetically/ethnically/culturally. so he would consider you as Croat to be an Albanian speaking a Slavo-Dalmat pidgin. he totally desconsiders Carpathian Ukrainians as well, I mean he doesn't consider them Slavic in the slightest, but just Slavic-speaking Romanized Albanians (Vlachs).
you and in general anybody should respect the right of any other region to do whatever when it comes to how they choose to relate to their past. you are Romanian-centric over Moldova which is quite offensive for Moldovans. if you southerners tomorrow choose to relate to your past in the Bulgarian empire no Moldovan would give a shit. so leave Moldovans at least those in a separate independent country to decide for their identity. Moldova, you like it or not, has always been a separate state from 14th century to 19th century and then the eastern side of it continued to be from the end of the 20th century. so Moldova has a whole lot of history as a separate entity to Wallachia/Transylvania, so they have the right to respect that separation.
He was called out on saying Western Moldova was Russified when you quoted Creanga. He was called out even by this Mik20 person on this thread. He talks like his info is from Sergiu Nicolaescu movies, but refuses "Communist propaganda". The biggest nationalists after the Scoala Ardeleana were the communists.
He should stick to conspiracy fb groups.
This guy seems to have normal results for the region. People from Botoșani, Iași and Vaslui have very similar results, and are visible northern compared to the rest ones. His surname by the way is from the same category like Ariciuc one, and is the most popular in Ukraine only in Bukovina, plus the areas who gravitate around northern Moldavian historical border.
Quote:
I still have nothing against him, don't consider him a troll as he considers me and I am not anti-Romanian in the slightest. it's just this topic that southern Romanians don't seem to understand - it comes from them thinking they are l'ombelico del mondo xD when it comes to regional history. you know what's funny? they now say Moldova is a lie and Moldovans are 100% Romanian/Vlach, the next moment they say they don't want the countries unified because it would bring Romania down economically. to me it looks like the problem is Rep. of Moldova is not named Eastern Romania xD that's what they want
it'd be normal to Ukrainian names in northernmost Romania to be from neighbouring Ukraine, not from Polisia or the steppes. I searched for names in my area and they score Galicia and Bucovina too, and some are not -iuk type and are not Romanian stem plus yuk in any case. the Ruthenians infiltrated into north Romania were from the very next region, which may and should have more Neolithic genes than their conationals in Kievshchina, along the Dnipro or such. very cool site, I will be searching it all day, thanks. I will pm you such purely Ukrainian names from my area (Maramures-Suceava) that score Bukovina as well.
also, the Romanian/Moldovan ethnics I know from north Bukovina all got Romanian last names (Ardelian, Ungurian, Mititelu, Moldovan, Suceveanu, Țaran etc)
The problem is that in K15 PCA the most northern niggas are from Botoșani, Iași and Vaslui, especially from Vaslui all samples are northern. Will be interesting if you will test your parents (your mother is from Vaslui and looks northern) to see the results like Ion Basescul did with him and his parents. Personally, if I will test myself, later I will test my parents too, and maybe the brother of my mother to see the Y-DNA of my maternal grandfather.
I think when such individuals write idiocy like this, more reasonable is to ignore them.
Quote:
The official seal of Petru Rares, a 16th century Moldovan ruler, reads like this "Печать ио Романа воевода Земле Молдавской" meaning "the seal of the Romanian Voivode of the Moldovan Country".
Thanks for reply and clarification. As for the second part, interesting point of view, but he's certainly not the first nor the last with such an opinion and nobody can deny his individual right to have it. In the Balkans exist two extreme ideological-cultural perspectives, one Pan-Slavic (etc. medieval) and other autohtonist. Both are wrong and true in the same time, we all have ancestry from one or the other, but in different proportions and these proportions are more similar or of the same value, at least 1/3-1/4, than they would like to accept.
Albanians cluster with Northwestern Greeks, not with Southern Slavs. You've been here for like what, 10 years? you should know this by now.
Romanians cluster with Southern Slavs and yes, the Vlach influence (not Albanian) extends to Western Ukraine, Moravian Wallachia and to some degree Gorals.
Russia has been an inimical state to Romania, from the beginning to this very day (including in the Soviet period). Somehow Russia has decided in the 18th century that Romanian principalities are its own turf and tried to acquire them by force. Since that effort failed, Russia used every trick in the book to hinder Romania's progress, much like Russia does today to Ukraine, in this unbelievable shitshow that is going on since 2014.
I have Russian and Ukrainian friends, East Slavic culture is something I find close to my heart, but I cannot have warm feelings towards Russia.
Moldova has been a separate state from Wallachia but they the same population mix, where the Wallachian component was the dominant one, hence the language spoken was exactly the same in both countries. Not only that, but the ruling dynasties were related, the ruling class was formed from the same families, and of course the laws in both countries were very much the same, because the rich wanted to move themselves and property from one country to another unhindered. Even more so, when both Moldova and Wallachia had the same suzerain (like the Ottomans for instance), one country (either Moldova or Wallachia) would have a more autonomous voivode and the other would have a sort of vice-prince, named by the former. So even though the countries were separate, they were ruled as one for most of the medieval era.
Now, I don't have anything against Rep of Moldova being an independent country, but only if it's not planning to become another Transnistria, and it's not justifying its bid for independence with fake history.
This is utter bullshit. Khokhols hate everything Russian while Russians see them as equal. They are a fake nation (just like you consider Moldovans to be fake) and their identity is negative, not positive (anti-Russian).
Dude, I suggest you get out of this thread about Gedmatch results. You are clueless about genetics, first prove that you're not a fucking Slav with Romani admixture xD
Calm down now.
I can certainly see the parallels between Romania-Moldova case and Russia-Ukraine, but for one Ukraine has it's own language and culture and it's 100 years older than Bessarabia (RM), as a Russian gubernia (I don't remember the exact years, don't quote me on this).
So, even though I suspect Ukrainians fake a lot of their history as well (for certain Ukraine started as part of Russia), you should support the will of the people to live in a independent state (like I do for Moldova).
Language is a political issue. You can call many dialects separate languages, it really depends on the perspective. In Italy all Italians are considered part of one nation even though there are vast linguistic (and genetic) differences between various parts of Italy. Maybe not today due to extensive intermixing and homogenization but surely until recently. So the difference between a separate ethnic group and simply a regional culture/identity can be very blurry.
BTW that seal is from the oldest moldavian document preserved to this day, document of great simbolic, and not only simbolic, value for moldavians and Moldavia. To be found now in Bucharest as that the walachian thieves took it after 1859 to put it in their museums and archives. Fate shared by countless priceless moldavian documents and artefacts.
This is the document:
https://tiparituriromanesti.files.wo...ievod-1392.jpg
With the text, translated from Sclavonic:
„† Marele singur stăpānitor, din mila lui Dumnezeu domn, Io Roman voievod, stăpānind Țara Moldovei de la munte pānă la mare. Am dat, cu fiii mei, Olecsandro și Bogdan, slugii noastre Ivanăș (Ionaș) Viteazul, pentru credincioasa lui slujbă, 3 sate pe Siret, uric, lui, cu tot venitul, īn veac, și copiilor lui, și nepoților lui, și strănepoților lui, și răstrănepoților lui, cu tot dreptul. Numele satelor: Ciorsaceuți și Vladimirăuți și Bucurăuți.
Iar hotarul lor să fie din jos de Marāșeuți, valul care este de-a curmezișul Cāmpului, pānă la Siret, apoi pe cealaltă parte a Siretului, la capătul de jos al poienii, o movilă, și de acolo, drept peste luncă, la fāntānă, o movilă, și de acolo drept la bucovină, o movilă, și de acolo, pe marginea bucovinei, īn sus, pānă la hotarul lui Șerb(ăn)escu, la tei, o movilă, de acolo către topliță, acolo o movilă, și de acolo către Siret, movila de la mijloc, și de acolo, (peste) Siret, īn sus, pānă la bucovina cea mare, pe unde iese drumul de la Dobrinăuți, la capătul Cāmpului, și de acolo, pe marginea bucovinei, pe deal la vale, pānă la val. Acesta īi este hotarul īntregului ocol.
Iar la aceasta este credința mea și credința fiilor mei, credința jupanului Iuga al lui Giurgiu, credința jupanului Stețco și cu frații lui, credința lui Bratul Netedul, credința lui Stanislav, credința panului Drăgoi, credința lui Andriaș și a panului Giurgiu, credința panului Draguș viteazul, credința lui Stravici, credința panului Vlad, a panului Ghidea, a panului Grozea, credința panului Costea, credința lui Oriș, credința tuturor boierilor moldoveni.
Iar pentru tăria acesteia și pentru pomenire, am poruncit să se atārne pecetea noastră cea mare, ca să nu fie clintită aceasta niciodată, īn veac.
S-a scris cartea īn anul 6900 [1392] deplin, luna martie, īn 30 zile, īn cetatea noastră, a lui Roman voievod.”
The name of the language is pretty much a non-issue in 2020. All of our intelligentsia recognise it as Romanian, and so do the plurality of people in the capital.
It's the ethnic identity were more people are yet to wake up (7% identified as Romanian in 2014, as opposed to 2.3% in 2004; that's a 200% increase, which means that we should be at least 21% at the next census in 4 years), but there's no need to rush. That will come with time.
https://statistica.gov.md/public/fil...vorbite_A4.jpg
I would agree with you that there is no need to rush, and in fact rushing it only brings unnecessary conflicts.
The only problem is that the economic situation is pressing, and Moldova lacks the perspective of developing economically independently, unlike Ukraine for instance.
It has perspective in the right sectors, if the focus is appropriate. Traditional sectors like agriculture need innovation, investments and automation.
The most competitive sector and which brings the most added value is IT and most people who activate in this field are satisfied with their work conditions and wages.
Moldova as of late is placing itself as an outsourcing IT hub for businesses in Europe, US and Russia. For example the company that I work for is a subsidiary of the main branch in Lithuania, which in its turn contracts services in the UK.
My best friend works for a subsidiary in Chisinau of a parking company in the US. His job is entry level, but he can work from home 4/5 days and on top of that they are flex hours.
So this will become an ever growing industry, because if you want to make a fair living, then the conditions for the employees are way more attractive than anywhere else in the market.
We even have Crunchyroll here :lol:
https://www.crunchyroll.com/about/work/index.html
https://tv8.md/2020/02/04/foto-chisi...sectorului-it/
https://moldovaitpark.md/