Gedmatch calculators on Vahaduo

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Originally Posted by Carpatz

Whatever Romance speaking populations that inhabited the territories; of modern Serbia, Bosnia and Croatia are either native there, or immigrated from what is now Romania. Aromanians from Greece have nothing to do with your "Vlachs".

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Not completely true. There was population movement from central and eastern Balkans but it's impact is hard to measure due to lack of proper sources.
Theory I wrote is coming from book about Serbs in Croatia written by local Serb. Vlach question is very complex.

There are different Vlach groups:

1. Istro-Romanians/Čići - by origins from Transylvania or Banat, speak arhaic Romanian and very small in numbers
2. Vlachs in eastern Serbia, also Romanians by origins and Istro-Romanians are possibly connected to them
3. ''Morlachs'' (which is a exonym) or Slavophone large population of dinaric alps, who are most controversial here and their origins are most disputed
4. Aromanians or Vlachs proper who are only present in south of Serbia, but their connection with Morlachs is proposed, but only partially.

Hypotesis goes like this: Morlachs are either native Slavs mixed Latinised Illyrians of western Balkans, or they are Aromanians from east and central Balkans who admixed with Slavs and lost their language trough centuries.
It's interesting how close you are to Morlach cluster average.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

No. Most pure islanders score above 40% Eastern European. NW Croats never moved there, only the opposite. Deal with it.
Bosniaks are either Croats or Serbs, and majority of Bosnian Muslims are ex Catholics.

But among them there are both Serb/Vlach shifted ones and Croat/Slav shifted ones.

Yes, many Croatian nationalists considered certain Bosnian muslims some of purest Croats unmixed with both westerners and easterners.

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yes yes cope mutt

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

Ante, most typical Dalmatian name. :D His AC composition is also typical. Almost all of my Croatian matches are Dalmatians and they usually score 100% Euro with Balkan 60-80% range and East Euro 10-20% range with the rest broadly Euro.Getting Bosnia togheder with Croatia is also the rule, because Dalmatian population is composed of medieval Slavo-Romance population mixed with Ottoman era (and modern to an extent) Catholic migrations from western BiH.

Getting his gedmatch would be cool.

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So who's the ambiguous "Bosnian" sample supposed to be? A Slavovlach mutt? I get that as first pop but at a shitty distance, over 6.

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Originally Posted by Maintenance

yes yes cope mutt

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They obviously don't. I didn't see enough samples. Now I have them, and I have thread for islanders where such miniscule E Euro results don't exist so far. Cope WOG.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...ferent-islands

This is good clue for you to stop playing expert on Croatian genetics.

General Croat 23andme thread (Insuperable and me menaged to get 71 full Croat samples :D)

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...-Croat-23andme

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

They obviously don't. I didn't see enough samples. Now I have them, and I have thread for islanders where such miniscule E Euro results don't exist so far. Cope WOG.

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You change your mind as it pleases you, you know nothing about genetics or phenotypes.

you have been spreading your bullshit since 2014 and now you say you just learned what dinarics are and now when you can change the reference of a calculator you suddenly are enlightened.
and now the whole balkan are fucked up in the calculation because of you.

go to sleep i think odon miss his mom whos been shitposting all night

fuck off

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maintenance

You change your mind as it pleases you, you know nothing about genetics or phenotypes.

you have been spreading your bullshit since 2014 and now you say you just learned what dinarics are and now when you can change the reference of a calculator you suddenly are enlightened.
and now the whole balkan are fucked up in the calculation because of you.

go to sleep i think odon miss his mom whos been shitposting all night

fuck off

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My thread about a dinarics was a IRONIC JOKE. Please leave me alone. I change my opinion as I learn new things. Also, since 23andme update results aren't the same as before.

And yes, fuck off.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...ferent-islands

This is good clue for you to stop playing expert on Croatian genetics.

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im not playing an expert, im using Your own words.

so tell yourself to stop playing an expert on croatian dna or dna in general.

pathetic cunt i never said anything about croatian genetics im quoting what you say urself

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Originally Posted by Maintenance

im not playing an expert, im using Your own words.

so tell yourself to stop playing an expert on croatian dna or dna in general.

pathetic cunt i never said anything about croatian genetics im quoting what you say urself

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Stop harassing me dude. You're annoying. What I said doesn't matter as I wasn't in posession of samples I have now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dick

So who's the ambiguous "Bosnian" sample supposed to be? A Slavovlach mutt? I get that as first pop but at a shitty distance, over 6.

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there's a continuum of apparent genetic similarity between the Black Sea and the Adriatic Sea - a north Balkan belt from Rep. Moldova to Moldova region in Romania to Transylvania to Serbia to Montenegro to Bosnia to Croatia - which actually is only from the fact the people in the region got to this day with a broadly similar mix of East Slav + PaleoBalkan ancestry to which they've got on different paths and in a different timeline. there's a certain regional rather small variation plus "exotic" other stuff depending on the region, like Siberian/TurkoMongol in northeast Romania to Germanic/Celtic central Euro in NW Balkans etc but broadly in this belt a lot of the individuals can get their closest national match another nation than their own, since this belt is mostly one supercluster within which the national clusters overlap a whole lot. the phenotypes are different instead, and there's an obvious Pontic-dominant northeast Balkan cluster different from the Dinaric-dominated northwest Balkan, even though PCA maps will show these together.

so we should accept this belt is a contact zone between East Slavs and ProtoBalkans in which different individuals have a different genetic path, depending sometimes more on family history.

and also accept this apparent closeness may be totally irrelevant for actual ancestry - on K13 (before the updates) I got a personally irrelevant 30% Bosniak as main component and only when I removed Bosniak from source I got around 50% Ukrainian, which is the relevant/true result. the same for Moldovans getting NW Transylvania, Serbia or even Croatia as closest distance or any Balkan Slav as main component.

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

Stop harassing me dude. You're annoying. What I said doesn't matter as I wasn't in posession of samples I have now.

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im not harassing you i call you out using your own words, your posting history is whats harassing you.
also i will never stop untill you stop insulting every member on this forum in your every post.

nobody can say anything without you insulting them.
you are a nutjob.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maintenance

im not harassing you i call you out using your own words, your posting history is whats harassing you.
also i will never stop untill you stop insulting every member on this forum in your every post.

nobody can say anything without you insulting them.
you are a nutjob.

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Whatever. Point is that there are many full Croats both from south and north who score similar or more Eastern European as I do.
I didn't have this information before. Now I do. And if with more samples we get different patterns again, I will learn something new.

Only an idiot doesn't change their opinion. My observation about Croat AC composition is obviously not entirely correct despite the fact many still score in a way I described. But many don't.
Scores vary greatly and that's it. Fullstop.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

Whatever. Point is that there are many full Croats both from south and north who score similar or more Eastern European as I do.
I didn't have this information before. Now I do. And if with more samples we get different patterns again, I will learn something new.

Only an idiot doesn't change their opinion. My observation about Croat AC composition is obviously not entirely correct despite the fact many still score in a way I described. But many don't.
Scores vary greatly and that's it. Fullstop.

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Yes people learn but when you aren't an expert or very sure of what youre saying is correct you should never go ape shit calling people, subhuman, mongrel, peasant etc etc

you wont take this to heart though which is sad.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maintenance

Yes people learn but when you aren't an expert or very sure of what youre saying is correct you should never go ape shit calling people, subhuman, mongrel, peasant etc etc

you wont take this to heart though which is sad.

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Your friends suck. I won't be polite to Četnik troll such as ProudBrit/IncelSlayer, a nasty person and I shouldn't have said I want him back. He remained the same. Troll.

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

Your friends suck. I won't be polite to Četnik troll such as ProudBrit/IncelSlayer, a nasty person and I shouldn't have said I want him back. He remained the same. Troll.

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lol, you insulting everyone, not just him or trolls

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nurzat

there's a continuum of apparent genetic similarity between the Black Sea and the Adriatic Sea - a north Balkan belt from Rep. Moldova to Moldova region in Romania to Transylvania to Serbia to Montenegro to Bosnia to Croatia - which actually is only from the fact the people in the region got to this day with a broadly similar mix of East Slav + PaleoBalkan ancestry to which they've got on different paths and in a different timeline. there's a certain regional rather small variation plus "exotic" other stuff depending on the region, like Siberian/TurkoMongol in northeast Romania to Germanic/Celtic central Euro in NW Balkans etc but broadly in this belt a lot of the individuals can get their closest national match another nation than their own, since this belt is mostly one supercluster within which the national clusters overlap a whole lot. the phenotypes are different instead, and there's an obvious Pontic-dominant northeast Balkan cluster different from the Dinaric-dominated northwest Balkan, even though PCA maps will show these together.

so we should accept this belt is a contact zone between East Slavs and ProtoBalkans in which different individuals have a different genetic path, depending sometimes more on family history.

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https://i.imgur.com/XnHP5ne.png

He is typical Southern Croat, I knew it. That's why he is so angry :jump0000::rofl_002::1127:

Distance to: PoudBrit

4.03972771 South_Croat_Slavic_Cluster
4.18628714 Croatian
5.00962777 Slovenian
5.52668979 Moldavian
5.89717729 Croat_Split
5.94694354 Serbian_Bosnia
7.13231117 Bosnian
7.20155539 Romanian_North_Moldova_Bukovina
7.21208043 Slovak
8.31663995 Csango_Gymes

:thumb001:

He should apply for CRO citizenship asap, we need such pure specimen here!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

He is typical Southern Croat, I knew it. That's why he is so angry :jump0000::rofl_002::1127:

Distance to: PoudBrit

4.03972771 South_Croat_Slavic_Cluster
4.18628714 Croatian
5.00962777 Slovenian
5.52668979 Moldavian
5.89717729 Croat_Split
5.94694354 Serbian_Bosnia
7.13231117 Bosnian
7.20155539 Romanian_North_Moldova_Bukovina
7.21208043 Slovak
8.31663995 Csango_Gymes

:thumb001:

He should apply for CRO citizenship asap, we need such pure specimen here!

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Can you check how close he is to this sample?

Romanian_Botosani,22.52,33.55,15.3,9.67,13.39,2.08 ,1.2,0.4,1.78,0,0 ,0,0

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Originally Posted by Dick

...

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He is correct, there is a North Balkan Slavo-Vlach supercluster.
For example troll IncelSlayer and me live on two opposite extremes of Balkan Peninsula, separated by 1000 km on almost exact latitude:

https://i.imgur.com/6lLayqb.png

Both are industrial shithole cities. Pretty interesting xD

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

He is correct, there is a North Balkan Slavo-Vlach supercluster.
For example troll IncelSlayer and me live on two opposite extremes of Balkan Peninsula, separated by 1000 km on almost exact latitude:

https://i.imgur.com/6lLayqb.png

Both are industrial shithole cities. Pretty interesting xD

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siblings

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mingle

Can you check how close he is to this sample?

Romanian_Botosani,22.52,33.55,15.3,9.67,13.39,2.08 ,1.2,0.4,1.78,0,0 ,0,0

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He is still closest to Croats :p

https://i.imgur.com/iRNRvCi.png

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

He is correct, there is a North Balkan Slavo-Vlach supercluster.
For example troll IncelSlayer and me live on two opposite extremes of Balkan Peninsula, separated by 1000 km on almost exact latitude:

https://i.imgur.com/6lLayqb.png

Both are industrial shithole cities. Pretty interesting xD

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https://thumbs.gfycat.com/YearlyGase...restricted.gif

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mingle

Okay. Can you post some quotes on people from the Dinarics speaking Romance (from that time period)? I haven't really heard of such people and info isn't easy to find on them.

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well surnames like Šegota and Krmpota definitely aren't Slavic, but they aren't East Balkan Romance(Romanian, Aromanian, Istro-Romanian) either. In my opinion Bunjevci are a West Balkan Vlach group, like those early Vlach tribes from Montenegro and Herzegovina.

btw it's gramatically hard to derive the word Bunjevac from river Buna. it's more likely from pre-Slavic stone houses "Bunje" or from the name Bunj which was recorded among medieval Vlachs in Kosovo, so Bunjevci could mean descendants of Bunj.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

well surnames like Šegota and Krmpota definitely aren't Slavic, but they aren't East Balkan Romance(Romanian, Aromanian, Istro-Romanian) either. In my opinion Bunjevci are a West Balkan Vlach group, like those early Vlach tribes from Montenegro and Herzegovina.

btw it's gramatically hard to derive the word Bunjevac from river Buna. it's more likely from pre-Slavic stone houses "Bunje" or from the name Bunj which was recorded among medieval Vlachs in Kosovo, so Bunjevci could mean descendants of Bunj.

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Their distant origins may have been Vlach, but around the time they got assimilated under the Croat identity, wouldn't it have been more likely for them to have been Slavic-speaking by then?

The similarity between Bunjevac and Bunja may be a coincidence, but they're believed by scholars to have originated somewhere near that river.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mingle

Their distant origins may have been Vlach, but around the time they got assimilated under the Croat identity, wouldn't it have been more likely for them to have been Slavic-speaking by then?

The similarity between Bunjevac and Bunja may be a coincidence, but they're believed by scholars to have originated somewhere near that river.

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Surely. They are also bit more Slavic than Vlach genetically, and in ydna mostly Slavic.

My father after I add latest Romanian average:

https://i.imgur.com/4R3UIhF.png

:)

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Originally Posted by Mingle

Their distant origins may have been Vlach, but around the time they got assimilated under the Croat identity, wouldn't it have been more likely for them to have been Slavic-speaking by then?

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yes, i think when they came, they spoke and spread with them the shtokavian ikavian dialect

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mingle

The similarity between Bunjevac and Bunja may be a coincidence, but they're believed by scholars to have originated somewhere near that river.

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the river is called Buna, not Bunja, and it's very small stream, not an actual river, not many people can originate from there. but they could originate somewhere from the larger Herzegovina and Montnegro area.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

Surely. They are also bit more Slavic genetically, and in ydna mostly Slavic.

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Around what period do you think Bunjevci/Morlach "Vlachs" (you say they were Vlachs before) adopted the Croat identity?

Around the late Middle Ages/post-Ottoman invasion of the Balkans?

If so, around that period, there were only Slavic-speakers in the Dinarics. Do you think they had their own distinct Slavic identity separate to both Serbs and Croats before becoming Croats or what?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

yes, i think when they came, they spoke and spread with them the shtokavian ikavian dialect

the river is called Buna, not Bunja, and it's very small stream, not an actual river, not many people can originate from there. but they could originate somewhere from the larger Herzegovina and Montnegro area.

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They are from western Herzegovina, where ikavians are (not in Montenegro).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mingle

Around what period do you think Bunjevci/Morlach "Vlachs" (you say they were Vlachs before) adopted the Croat identity?

Around the late Middle Ages/post-Ottoman invasion of the Balkans?

If so, around that period, there were only Slavic-speakers in the Dinarics. Do you think they had their own distinct Slavic identity separate to both Serbs and Croats before becoming Croats or what?

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They could be Vlachs who admixed with Zahumljani, Zahumlje correspond to western Herzegovina. But I am really not sure.
They became part of Croatian nation in 19th century, when modern South Slavic nations were formed. Before that people identified along religious lines, peasants had no sense of ethnic identity (only tribal in some cases), which was introduced to them by educated elites.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

yes, i think when they came, they spoke and spread with them the shtokavian ikavian dialect

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That was more or less the point I was making then. I don't think they can be called Vlachs at the time period they were Croatized if they were Shtokavian-speakers.

Ikavian is only used by Croats today, right?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

They could be Vlachs who admixed with Zahumljani, Zahumlje correspond to western Herzegovina. But I am really not sure.
They became part of Croatian nation in 19th century, when modern South Slavic nations were formed. Before that people identified along religious lines, peasants had no sense of ethnic identity (only tribal in some cases), which was introduced to them by educated elites.

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So you think they're Croatized Zahumljani Slavs and consider the Zahumljani Slavs separate from both Serbs and Croats?

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Originally Posted by Mingle

Ikavian is only used by Croats today, right?

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You could say that. But Bosnian muslims spoke ikavian in masses until recently. It was dominant dialect among them.
Among Serbs ikavian is present only in areas such as Kupres and small village or two in Dalmatian Hinterland where they were in contact with Croat majority.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

They are from western Herzegovina, where ikavians are (not in Montenegro).

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it doesn't fit genetically. west Herzegovina is a local Slavic maximum. even those results from an isolated mountain village in west Herzegovina are all at least 30% Baltic, while Bunjevci are 27-29

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mingle

So you think they're Croatized Zahumljani Slavs and consider the Zahumljani Slavs separate from both Serbs and Croats?

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DAI says Zahumljani were Serbs, but I don't think it's correct because their Prince mentions origins from tribe Litziki in Poland on Vistula river.
In my opinion Byzantine Emperor concluded they are Serbs because at time DAI was written this Sclavinia was under political control of Serbia.

Target: Feiichy_Father
Distance: 2.1956% / 2.19564487 | ADC: 0.5x

64.4 Croat_Split
23.2 Hungarian
12.4 Slovenian

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

it doesn't fit genetically. west Herzegovina is a local Slavic maximum. even those results from an isolated mountain village in west Herzegovina are all at least 30% Baltic, while Bunjevci are 27-29

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Could it be distant Aromanian/Balkan Vlach influence?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

DAI says Zahumljani were Serbs, but I don't think it's correct because their Prince mentions origins from tribe Litziki in Poland on Vistula river.
In my opinion Byzantine Emperor concluded they are Serbs because at time DAI was written this Sclavinia was under political control of Serbia.

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Okay, just wanted to see where you stand on the issue.

In my opinion, historical sources are usually right unless contradicted/shown to be false.

Here are some other
sources that say Serbia extended past the Drina River (backing the DAI here):

https://i.imgur.com/SU1LBrc.png

Bosnia is mentioned as part of Serb even when not controlled by Serbia for example.

No other Slavic tribes were named around this time period. It seems unlikely they were neither Serbs or Croats or else we would've heard of them.