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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
True 100%. Since I am outside genetics, I have no numbers, but my eyes and brain for 20 years of life in the Crimea and 2 years in the Odessa region confirm this. Here is a different substrate compared to the Moscow region, not to mention the more northern regions. But there are also many "northern" settlers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
Whatever one may say, multi-million people do not disappear without a trace:).
Those groups weren't "multi-million" though. It's not like a group of Slavs would have magically assimilated hordes of non-Slavs.Quote:
Originally Posted by KirillMazur
Southern Russians and Ukrainians still do not score a lot of West Asian (not more than Poles or Slovaks for example) which means the supposed Iranic thing cannot have been massive.
If you ever get to order a DNA test, my advice is not to go for Genotek which is the only officially allowed DNA testing company in Russia. Their raw data is shit (V5 chip). Choose FTDNA instead, it's not banned yet.
True.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
For example I1-FGC22045 and N-FGC28435 are strong in Krajina Serbs and both are founded in skeletons from Cernica near Gacko (East Herzegovina) from the late middle age https://hercegbosna.org/forum/post1638232.html#p1638232
Krajina Serbs have tons of matches in East/Old Herzegovina among other haplos as well, and they are linguistically connected with East Herzegovina. There is no linguistic connection between Krajina Serbs and old shtokavian ijekavian ("Montenegrin"), old shtokavian ekavian of central Serbia, Torlakian etc.
Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Varda
The fact is that "Illyrians" were not homogenous people, those in northwestern part are different, while those of southeast Illyricum is closer to "Thracians".
In other words, autosomal genetics of pre-Slavic component of Serbs and Croats are different.
That is fact proven by autosomal genetics.
Baseless claim without any proof. Croatian IA sample is from southern area. And IA Apulian is nothing like Thracian as well. Apulia is much more southern than majority of west Balkans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dušan
Not really. Depends on the region.Quote:
In other words, autosomal genetics of pre-Slavic component of Serbs and Croats are different.
That is fact proven by autosomal genetics.
What about Apulia?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
Are you talking about influence of Roman colonisation?
Yes, and there is different situation, it was stronger in areas settled with Serbs, than areas with Croats, in area of nortern Croats, no occured at all.
Only southern Croats are a bit closer, the rest are not at all.Quote:
Not really. Depends on the region.
Varda would say they are catholicized Serbs.
Well by genetics it could be.
Apulia sample is from Illyrian tribe that came to Apulia from Dalmatia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dušan
Northern Croatia had Celts, does not mean there were no Romans there (there were even in Hungary). There is also later Hungarian-German influence.
Slavonian Croats pre-Slavic is very southern, they just have high Baltic. Outside of Kajkavian area most Illyrian-shifted pre-Slavic seems to be on the Islands.Quote:
Only southern Croats are a bit closer, the rest are not at all.
Keep dreaming. Here is my 100% north Čakavian friend and he plots like Slavonian and Bosnian Croats (bad raw tho)Quote:
Varda would say they are catholicized Serbs.
Well by genetics it could be.
1.89230633 24.40% Ashkenazi + 75.60% South_Polish
1.91501174 65.60% Southwest_Russian + 34.40% Tuscan
2.05197081 41.00% Central_Greek + 59.00% Estonian
2.06836817 40.80% Belorussian + 59.20% Romanian
2.11068372 63.40% Belorussian + 36.60% Italian_Abruzzo
2.14019503 62.20% Estonian + 37.80% South_Italian
2.19374833 64.80% Serbian + 35.20% Southwest_Russian
2.20844427 60.40% Bulgarian + 39.60% Estonian
2.20928916 20.60% Italian_Jewish + 79.40% South_Polish
2.24241227 52.00% Estonian + 48.00% Greek_Thessaly
2.29117001 60.00% Bulgarian + 40.00% Finnish
2.36317668 31.00% Belorussian + 69.00% Serbian
2.37149409 80.60% South_Polish + 19.40% Tunisian_Jewish
2.38392837 40.20% East_Sicilian + 59.80% Estonian
2.39902963 20.60% Algerian_Jewish + 79.40% South_Polish
2.41382230 64.00% Estonian_Polish + 36.00% Italian_Abruzzo
2.41477149 20.60% Sephardic_Jewish + 79.40% South_Polish
2.41830483 64.60% Belorussian + 35.40% West_Sicilian
2.45086013 31.40% Estonian_Polish + 68.60% Serbian
2.56697423 41.20% Estonian_Polish + 58.80% Romanian
2.56813092 35.40% Estonian + 64.60% Romanian
2.63051570 19.20% Libyan_Jewish + 80.80% South_Polish
2.66311259 67.40% Belorussian + 32.60% South_Italian
2.69938095 25.60% Lithuanian + 74.40% Serbian
2.74221854 45.00% Belorussian + 55.00% Bulgarian
My other Čakavian Croat friend plots like north-western Croats.
It's not back and white.
Neither all Serbs score tha same, ofc. This Dalmatian Serb pre-Slavic part is more northern than Dušan's.
Distance to: Nausevar(Serb)
2.76075908 11.00% Sardinian + 89.00% Serbian
3.11056430 60.40% Moldavian + 39.60% North_Italian
3.36782865 58.80% Croatian + 41.20% Tuscan
3.43118799 52.40% Tuscan + 47.60% Ukrainian_Lviv
3.56702628 63.80% Moldavian + 36.20% Tuscan
3.64875643 54.20% Tuscan + 45.80% Ukrainian
4.09252394 79.60% Moldavian + 20.40% Sardinian
4.13079957 39.80% Russian_Smolensk + 60.20% Tuscan
4.21926988 64.60% Croatian + 35.40% West_Sicilian
4.22393558 55.60% Croatian + 44.40% North_Italian
4.29585245 35.00% Lithuanian + 65.00% Tuscan
4.34773798 42.20% Polish + 57.80% Tuscan
4.36481097 39.40% Estonian_Polish + 60.60% Tuscan
4.39390138 33.40% Erzya + 66.60% North_Italian
4.49906036 59.20% Tuscan + 40.80% Ukrainian_Belgorod
4.57083715 41.20% Southwest_Russian + 58.80% Tuscan
4.59185750 62.40% North_Italian + 37.60% Ukrainian_Belgorod
4.62386591 17.80% North_Italian + 82.20% Serbian
4.66633945 53.40% Ukrainian_Lviv + 46.60% West_Sicilian
4.73525856 88.00% Serbian + 12.00% Southwest_French
4.75427856 87.80% Serbian + 12.20% Spanish_Andalucia
4.76225177 62.20% North_Italian + 37.80% Southwest_Russian
4.76863779 37.80% Kargopol_Russian + 62.20% Tuscan
4.77508605 51.60% Ukrainian + 48.40% West_Sicilian
4.78417356 46.40% South_Polish + 53.60% Tuscan
There is a possibility that actually the Balkans before the arrival of the Slavs were more west-shifted than modern-day southern Italians, this could also be why Albanians have virtually the same EEF amount as southern Italians despite also having received Slavic input. And there is also the possibility that proto-Slavs had already mixed before reaching the Balkans, and would therefore look more something like Poles with 42 or 43% Baltic rather than Belarusians.
Spoiler!
Medieval Greeks and their modern descendants.