Gedmatch calculators on Vahaduo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dušan

You just said that you, Ph2ter, Hrvoje and all other NW Croats are fake Croats, and those close to Serbs are real ones.:)

There are much more western Serbs than those Split Croats in number of population. It is Serb cluster, not Croatian.

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I am 3/4 Croat by origin, Hrvoje bit less than half. Ph2ter is full Croat as far as I know but his people are different from southern Croats.
I think your should add more people to Bosnian Serb cluster, it has only 4 from Doboj and Banja Luka. If you added Serbs from Herzegovina, East Bosnia etc, I think it will be closest to new Serb average.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

No.
I don't plot with Southern Croat Slavic average (unlike you). I am much closer to NW Croats, Hungarians and Slovenians.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

I am too little Baltic, bit more North Atlantic, too much West Asian and too little East Med for southern Croats. I also score no Red Sea at all, and their average has suprisingly high score (something like 2.5)

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Nop, you've said this at least a few times in the past days alone, let me repost some contradictions of yours(just regarding dalmatian croats), some of which were posted right in this very thread.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

According to 23andme I am definition of pure southern Croat, having ancestry only from 3 southernmost Croatian counties.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

I don't see anything false in what I wrote. I really did get only 3 Dalmatian counties in Croatia and I score like Russian/Ukrainian + Spanish/N.Italian on Global 25, exactly like a Slavic-Dalmatian mix and nothing else.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

I am Dalmatian Croat and in Dalmatia lived Illyrians.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

Genetically speaking, it does not matter, average Croat is not more med than I am (I have many GEDmatch kits and Know that).
Most of my ancestry is Dalmatian, and there is misconception on this forum they are ''med people by blood'' which is simply untrue (culture is another thing).
I can post pure Dalmatians with similar or even less med scores than what I have.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

Most of my ancestry is Dalmatian and I identify with it.

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For the Nth time, the difference between you and them is that you also have slight recent german admixture, which lowers your baltic and increases North_sea and lowers your EE but increases your NW euro on 23andme, past this you're both the same thing:medieval bosnians(serbs) and pannonian slavs mixed in different ratios whether recent or during the medieval.
End of deal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

Distance to: Serbian_Bosnia

1.15990840 Croat_Split
2.31010898 Bosnian
2.97378336 Romanian_North_Moldova_Bukovina
3.02765379 South_Croat_Morlach_Cluster
3.04522464 Serbian_new
4.23139900 South_Croat_Slavic_Cluster
4.27129225 Szekely
4.73693862 Moldavian
4.76462354 Romanian_Botosani
5.02121873 Csango_Gymes

:1127:

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probably because Split kept more pre-Slavic blood than some other parts of Croatia, and Bosnian Serbs are a little bit more Slavic than other Serbs, so they overlap

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ProudBrit

Nop, you've said this at least a few times in the past days alone, let me repost some contradictions of yours(just regarding dalmatian croats), some of which were posted right in this very thread.

For the Nth time, the difference between you and them is that you also have slight recent german admixture, which lowers your baltic and increases North_sea and lowers your EE but increases your NW euro on 23andme, past this you're both the same thing:medieval bosnians(serbs) and pannonian slavs mixed in different ratios whether recent or during the medieval.
End of deal.

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Some of the things you posted are said many moths ago, troll. Now I score other Croatian counties too, not only Dalmatia.
I don't have German above statistical noise, I seem to have more of this BA/IA age like Croatian ancestry as do my parents.

I am less Slavic than average but my Vlach part seems to be significantly less wog than theirs. Maybe this natives genetics is especially well preserved on islands. They are not like eastern Vlachs.
I will know more when I get my hands on pure islanders gedmatch results.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

probably because Split kept more pre-Slavic blood than some other parts of Croatia, and Bosnian Serbs are a little bit more Slavic than other Serbs, so they overlap

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In general mainland Dalmatian and Bosnian population is very similar. Dalmatia is coast of Bosnia from geographical point of view.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

I am 3/4 Croat by origin, Hrvoje bit less than half. Ph2ter is full Croat as far as I know but his people are different from southern Croats.
I think your should add more people to Bosnian Serb cluster, it has only 4 from Doboj and Banja Luka. If you added Serbs from Herzegovina, East Bosnia etc, I think it will be closest to new Serb average.

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And ph2ter's people are 30-40% of overall Croats. Those are very distant from southern Croats.
You should decide who are real Croats and who are fake ones - those Serbian-shifted or those Hungarian-Austrian-Czech-shifted. :popcorn:

I didn't create Bosnian Serb average and put it into calculator. It could be merged to Serbian average and those 4 results added to Serbian average.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

Some of the things you posted are said many moths ago, troll. Now I score other Croatian counties too, not only Dalmatia.
I don't have German above statistical noise, I seem to have more of this BA/IA age like Croatian ancestry as do my parents.

I am less Slavic than average but my Vlach part seems to be significantly less wog than theirs. Maybe this natives genetics is especially well preserved on islands. They are not like eastern Vlachs.
I will know more when I get my hands on pure islanders gedmatch results.

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You've said just few days ago how you plot like a pure southern croat and nothing else, what else is there to say?

You're, according to yourself, 4% NW and 2% french&german on 23andme and used to score german regions, on top of KNOWING you have recent german ancestry on paper(hell, i remember, but i might be wrong, saying you even visited these 'imaginary' german cousins :lol:) there is nothing 'statistically noise' at this and Bronze Age and Iron Age were both different between each other, you're making all this on the spot to fit your current narrative and you're getting boring.

When you find new results you will come up with a different theory to cope and nonchalantly say again "Only an idiot doesn't change their opinion"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dušan

And ph2ter's people are 30-40% of overall Croats. Those are very distant from southern Croats.
You should decide who are real Croats and who are fake ones - those Serbian-shifted or those Hungarian-Austrian-Czech-shifted. :popcorn:

I didn't create Bosnian Serb average and put it into calculator. It could be merged to Serbian average and those 4 results added to Serbian average.

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Serbs from Montenegro, SE Serbia and Kosovo would be pretty distant from you and Bosnian Serbs. So?
Our people don't descend from one tribe. These differences are still marginal compared to country like France, Italy or Germany, obviously.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ProudBrit

You've said just few days ago how you plot like a pure southern croat and nothing else, what else is there to say?

You're, according to yourself, 4% NW and 2% french&german on 23andme and used to score german regions, on top of KNOWING you have recent german ancestry on paper(hell, i remember, but i might be wrong, saying you even visited these 'imaginary' german cousins :lol:) there is nothing 'statistically noise' at this and Bronze Age and Iron Age were both different between each other, you're making all this on the spot to fit your current narrative and you're getting boring.

When you find new results you will come up with a different theory to cope and nonchalantly say again "Only an idiot doesn't change their opinion"

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No, I don't score any Germanic on Global 25. I would like to but I don't. On 23andme me my NW Euro isn't much different from what some full Croats get, it's nothing.
Deal with it.

And rather worry about your very atypical results.

Could you imagine - some few Split Croats are autosomal simmilar to 2 million Bosnian and Krajina Serbs, and she described that cluster as real Croatian. :picard1:

Then you are fake Croat mongrel. As well as all Croat members here.

My sister's husband's EUtest

Distance to: Vsh
4.58590231 Ukrainian-Russian
5.32051689 West_Russian
5.78562875 East_Russian
7.57701128 Ukrainian
7.58528180 Belorussian
7.58542682 North_Russian
7.72924964 UA_Sumy
8.38699589 Polish
8.57888105 Northwest_Russian
9.62558570 East_Finnish
9.64026971 Erzya
10.18056482 Estonian
11.76136897 South_Finnish
12.31490966 Slovakian_1
12.73875583 Lithuanian
13.96750157 Kaikavian_Croatian
14.25237042 Czech
14.40958448 Latvian_1
15.05983695 Croatian
15.68110009 Slovenian_1
17.26133541 Komi
17.79469584 Udmurt
17.79657270 Moldavian_1
17.91515560 Hungarian
18.62697976 SerbianBosnia

Target: Vsh
Distance: 2.0739% / 2.07387334
37.4 Ukrainian-Russian
29.4 North_Russian
13.2 UA_Sumy
11.6 East_Russian
4.0 East_Finnish
2.8 Norwegian
1.6 Sardinian

Basically it goes like this:

37.4+13.2=50.6% "Slavic"
29.4+11.6+4.0=45% "Finno-Ugric"

MDLP K23b

Distance to: Vsh
3.98638934 Russian_North
4.16736128 Russian_Meshtchyora
4.68810196 Russian-Upper-Volga
4.87500769 Russian-West
5.40447037 Ukrainian_West
5.55758041 Belarusian-East
5.64786685 Kashub
5.77306678 Russian_South
5.79027633 Sorb
5.82229336 Russian-North-West
5.94531749 Ukrainian_Center
6.06235103 Erzya
6.22649982 Belarusian_West
6.39606129 Ukrainian_East
6.63945781 Slovak
7.42143517 Moksha
7.44081313 Don_cossack
7.55669240 German
7.70937741 Ukrainian
7.90012025 Mordovian
8.00692201 Finn_West
8.18793014 Russian-North
8.90529618 Russian_Vologda
9.01326800 Finnish_FIN
9.02883160 Finnish-East

Target: Vsh
Distance: 0.7601% / 0.76007321
34.8 Sorb
22.4 Latvian
11.0 Serb_Serbia
7.6 Ukrainian_East
7.2 Kashub
4.8 Belarusian_Russian
2.4 Croat_BH
2.4 Nenets_Forest
2.0 Frisian
1.6 Khant
1.2 Karitiana
1.0 Saami_Kola
0.8 Nganasan
0.4 Sardinian
0.2 Georgian_Laz
0.2 Georgian_Tbilisi

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

Serbs from Montenegro, SE Serbia and Kosovo would be pretty distant from you and Bosnian Serbs. So?

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Precisely because neighbors mix over time, same as how southern croats are a mix of medieval bosnian(serbs) largely and pannonian slavs population(slovenians/kajkavian croats etc..) under different ratios.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dušan

Could you imagine - some few Split Croats are autosomal simmilar to 2 million Bosnian and Krajina Serbs, and she described that cluster as real Croatian. :picard1:

Than you are fake Croat mongrel. As well as all Croat members here.

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Coontrol your anger. You most likely have Croatian blood since many Croatian serfs moved to Krajina communities to escape feudal system.
Core of old Croatia was near Split, and we should search for their descendants there.

Just like we should search purest Serbs among Christians in SW Serbia and Sandžak.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ProudBrit

Precisely because neighbors mix over time, same as how southern croats are a mix of medieval bosnian(serbs) largely and pannonian slavs population(slovenians/kajkavian croats etc..) under different ratios.

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No, Panonnian Croats never came there LMAO, people always migrated to Panonnia and not the opposite.
Panonnian Croats have south Croat blood and not the opposite.

Southern Croats are mix of original medieval Croats, BiH Croats and indeed some Serbs. As you said, people mix over time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

In general mainland Dalmatian and Bosnian population is very similar. Dalmatia is coast of Bosnia from geographical point of view.

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there's no much connection between Pannonian Bosnia, where these samples are from, and Dalmatia.
the samples from Split are much more southern than the ones from Zagreb, and i'm sure they have a lot of ancestry from the local Dalmatian speaking Vlachs which makes them similar to Serbs.
those 4 Bosnian Serbs are only slightly more Slavic than the average Serb, 31% Baltic, while the surrounding Bosniaks and Croats are all like 35, 36, lol

k13 is a very useful tool, but in the end only deep subclades of haplogroups can tell the truth, i'll probably focus on that more in the future.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

Coontrol your anger. You most likely have Croatian blood since many Croatian serfs moved to Krajina communities to escape feudal system.
Core of old Croatia was near Split, and we should search for their descendants there.

Just like we should search purest Serbs among Christians in SW Serbia and Sandžak.

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Fortunately, I dont have. :) I don't look like your people, as well as no one in my family.
I am eastern-shifted, my Paleo-Balkan ancestors were Thracians from Kosovo and other parts of central Balkan.


And what is more interesting, K36 tool put my ancestry more eastern than Serbia - to Bulgaria.

Spoiler!

https://i.imgur.com/aUEgRcS.png

https://i.imgur.com/8P9BS5y.jpg

So more likely, that few Split Croats have deep Balkan origin. :coffee:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

there's no much connection between Pannonian Bosnia, where these samples are from, and Dalmatia.
the samples from Split are much more southern than the ones from Zagreb, and i'm sure they have a lot of ancestry from the local Dalmatian speaking Vlachs which makes them similar to Serbs.
those 4 Bosnian Serbs are only slightly more Slavic than the average Serb, 31% Baltic, while the surrounding Bosniaks and Croats are all like 35, 36, lol

k13 is a very useful tool, but in the end only deep subclades of haplogroups can tell the truth, i'll probably focus on that more in the future.

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No, Bosnian Serbs aren't native to Panonnia lol. And my father is not similar to average Serbs. As I said Baltic score is meaningless unless all others should are compared as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dušan

Fortunately, I dont have. :) I don't look like your people, as well as no one in my family.
I am eastern-shifted, my Paleo-Balkan ancestors were Thracians from Kosovo and other parts of central Balkan.


And what is more interesting, K36 tool put my ancestry more eastern than Serbia - to Bulgaria.

Spoiler!

https://i.imgur.com/aUEgRcS.png

https://i.imgur.com/8P9BS5y.jpg

So more likely, that few Split Croats have deep Balkan origin. :coffee:

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Maybe you don't but many do. Pribislav looks Croatian, but you don't.
My father looks nothing like a Serb for example.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

No, I don't score any Germanic on Global 25. I would like to but I don't. On 23andme me my NW Euro isn't much different from what some full Croats get, it's nothing.
Deal with it.

And rather worry about your very atypical results.

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1.It don't care about some cherrypicked calculator that fits your current narrative, some full croats in the north get your NW level because of slovenian and austro-hungarian mixture, yours is mostly from recent german ancestry, its not nothing when you have german ancestry on paper and 23andme clearly shows its recent.
Just a single quote, couldn't be bothered to find more.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

Very small amount of her German is from Alsace, just one line (it's not Swabian). Rest is Swabian and they Danube Swabians were of diverse origins. Uncle say that Swabian was from Austria, but I did not see proof.

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And if global 25 is g25 there you're modelled as 30% austrian.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

Coontrol your anger. You most likely have Croatian blood since many Croatian serfs moved to Krajina communities to escape feudal system.
Core of old Croatia was near Split, and we should search for their descendants there.

Just like we should search purest Serbs among Christians in SW Serbia and Sandžak.

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Croatian trail among Krajina Serbs including Bosanska Krajina could be only "chakavian" R1a-Z280>Y2613 (4% among Lika Serbs according to last statistic).

It's nothing in comparation with tons of croatized Serbs (mostly I2-PH908, but also some other markers).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ProudBrit

1.It don't care about some cherrypicked calculator that fits your current narrative, some full croats in the north get your NW level because of slovenian and austro-hungarian mixture, yours is mostly from recent german ancestry, its not nothing when you have german ancestry on paper and 23andme clearly shows its recent.
Just a single quote, couldn't be bothered to find more.

And if global 25 is g25 there you're modelled as 30% austrian.

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I don't have neither Germany nor Austria as match on 23andme neither many German DNA relatives. Very few only.
And this 30% Austrian we get on vahaduo using K13, big deal. I gat South Polish, Caucasus and French Basque and I have no ancestry from there.
It's menaingless model. Austrians are pretty similar to Hungarians and Slovenians.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pribislav

Croatian trail among Krajina Serbs including Bosanska Krajina could be only "chakavian" R1a-Z280>Y2613 (4% among Lika Serbs according to last statistic).
It's nothing in comparation with tons of croatized Serbs (mostly I2-PH908, but also some other markers).

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I2-din is definitely not a White Serb marker, PH908 doesn't exist among Sorbs. Sorry.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

I2-din is definitely not a White Serb marker, PH908 doesn't exist among Sorbs. Sorry.

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Of couse, it's Serbian.

Proto-Croatian marker is R1a-Z280>Y2613. More precisely it's marker of Slavs who adopted Croatian Turkic name in the early middle age.

My father on K13

Target: Father
Distance: 1.2539% / 1.25392620

25.8 South_Polish
19.0 Albanian
18.4 Romanian_Muntenia
13.6 Ukrainian
10.0 Norwegian
6.6 Romanian_Transylvania
3.2 Latvian
1.8 German_West
0.8 Dai
0.4 Karitiana
0.4 Ukrainian_Belgorod

Ofcourse he isn't 10% Norwegian, 19% Albanian etc, ll. It's just a model.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pribislav

Of couse, it's Serbian.
Proto-Croatian marker is R1a-Z280>Y2613. More precisely it's marker of Slavs who adopted Croatian Turkic name in the early middle age.

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No, it's most likely Sclavenaian and lot of basal PH908 branches are in Bulgaria. Highest diversity in Ukraine. It came from east, around Carpathians and lower Danube region.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

I don't have neither Germany nor Austria as match on 23andme neither many German DNA relatives. Very few only.
And this 30% Austrian we get on vahaduo using K13, big deal. I gat South Polish, Caucasus and French Basque and I have no ancestry from there.
It's menaingless model. Austrians are pretty similar to Hungarians and Slovenians.

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Now G25 is meaningless but few moments ago you used it as an(the only) argument.:picard1::picard1:
You're plain ignoring your own past quotes just because they don't fit this current narrative, not bothering anymore on this subject.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

Before 23andme update I had Thuringia as region in Germany.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

My grandma was mixed but mostly German (0 Croat). I get very very little NW Euro autosomally, but this haplogroup is clear link to the region.
Yes, I get Thuringia :p

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

My German match (their surname is most common in Thuringia and Saxony-Anhalt)

Admix Results (sorted):

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Pribislav, R1a-Z280>Y2613 is subclade of CTS3402. So in that you are correct, I guess 23andme doesn't test any deeper.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

No, Bosnian Serbs aren't native to Panonnia lol.

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i know, but you claimed the opposite.
you implied that Split and North Bosnia form some kind of historical-geographical cluster together and those Serbs are similar to Split Croats because they are Serbianized local Croats.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ProudBrit

Now G25 is meaningless but few moments ago you used it as an(the only) argument.:picard1::picard1:
You're plain ignoring your own past quotes just because they don't fit this current narrative, not bothering anymore on this subject.

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That is not G25. You are quoting results on K13 on vahaduo. I never get Austrian on G25.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

No, it's most likely Sclavenaian and lot of basal PH908 branches are in Bulgaria. Highest diversity in Ukraine. It came from east, around Carpathians and lower Danubian region.
And among Croats most common R1a is CTS3402 accoring to 23andme samples I collected so far.

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In pure chakavian areas such as Kvarner the strongest marker is R1a-Z280>Y2613 or so call Carpatian-Dalmatian branch.

BiH Croatians, Croatians from Dalmatian hinterland, Šokci and Bunjevci are lack of this marker.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pribislav

In pure chakavian areas such as Kvarner the strongest marker is R1a-Z280>Y2613 or so call Carpatian-Dalmatian branch.

BiH Croatians, Croatians from Dalmatian hinterland, Šokci and Bunjevci are lack of this marker.

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This marker is most common R1a I collected so far, and yes it's pretty common in the south.
R1a among Croats is way more than old research say, according to my stats it's 30% and our samples are like 80% southerners.

That's difference to Serbs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

i know, but you claimed the opposite.
you implied that Split and North Bosnia form some kind of historical-geographical cluster together and those Serbs are similar to Split Croats because they are Serbianized local Croats.

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I didn't imply that although some Bosnian Serbs are, ask Devil Advocate (those in Potkozarje etc).,But most aren't.
My point is that southern Croat and Bosnian population is pretty similar regardless of ethnicity. Because both are mix of Slavs and Vlachs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

Hungarian mongrel, don't stick to irrelevant modeling on K13, it isn't science nor serious.
Mix a Croat with Romanians and you get a Serb, hahaha.

Mix a Bulgar with Gypsy and Serb, you get a Romanian.

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Don't you ever get tired of spouting bullshit? deliberately assimilating Vlachs to gypsies?
You yourself have Vlach ancestry and your husband too. And every single South Slav. Deal with it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

This marker is most common R1a I collected so far, and yes it's pretty common in the south.
R1a among Croats is way more than old research say, according to my stats it's 30% and our samples are like 80% southerners.

That's difference to Serbs.

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Carpatian-Dalmatian R1a in Dalmatia can be found only among islanders and some coastal Croatians, but it's not strongest marker among them. One Serb from Benkovac and one from border between Dalmatia and Lika carry this marker.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ixulescu

Don't you ever get tired of spouting bullshit? deliberately assimilating Vlachs to gypsies?
You yourself have Vlach ancestry and your husband too. And every single South Slav. Deal with it.

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Lol, as if we don't know. I will answer to your retarded countryman in same way he trolls us.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pribislav

Carpatian-Dalmatian R1a in Dalmatia can be found only among islanders and some coastal Croatians, but it's not strongest marker among them. One Serb from Benkovac and one from border between Dalmatia and Lika carry this marker.

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Not really true. It exist among dinaric Croats as well. I2 is ofcourse most common. And funny is how E is practically absent. With more samples there will be some ofc, but it's low so far.
Out of 45 samples only one is E-V13. and I1 is third most common, at 16% so far.

Previous research claimed I1 is very low in Croats, seems not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

Lol, as if we don't know. I will answer to your retarded countryman in same way he trolls us.

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you can deal with a retard without involving everybody else

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

That is not G25. You are quoting results on K13 on vahaduo. I never get Austrian on G25.

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Sure, my bad, heres a g25, but its irrelevant to my point, you're german admixed on paper trail and on 23andme and now you're ignoring this because it doesn't fit your current narrative.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

Distance to: Feiichy_scaled

0.02978107 Italian_Northeast_o
0.03223627 Bosnian
0.03265834 Croatian
0.03346968 Slovenian
0.03490519 Austrian
0.03558584 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige_o
0.03590075 Slovakian
WTF ??

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peterski

^^^
Italian_Northeast_o and Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige_o are ethnic Slovenes from Italy.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by ProudBrit

Sure, my bad, heres a g25, but its irrelevant to my point, you're german admixed on paper trail and on 23andme and now you're ignoring this because it doesn't fit your current narrative.

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Okay, but it's little. I don't understand why. Because I am German looking.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

Not really true. It exist among dinaric Croats as well. I2 is ofcourse most common. And funny is how E is practically absent. With more samples there will be some ofc, but it's low so far.
Out of 45 samples only one is E-V13. and I2 is third most common, at 16% so far.

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References for Dinaric Croatians?

Vast majority of Serbs with that marker are from regions west of Vrbas river. Still it's minority of total R1a Krajina Serbs.