German GEDmatch results

Some guy with the surname Nürnberger which literally means from Nuremberg. May be Southern German indeed.

North_Atlantic 40.73 Pct
Baltic 27.24 Pct
West_Med 14.71 Pct
West_Asian 4.22 Pct
East_Med 11.91 Pct
Red_Sea -
South_Asian -
East_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian 1.03 Pct
Oceanian 0.16 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Austrian 5.93
2 West_German 6.19
3 South_Dutch 7.33
4 East_German 7.46
5 Hungarian 9.1
6 North_German 9.95
7 French 10.33
8 Southeast_English 10.96
9 Danish 11.66
10 North_Dutch 11.91
11 Orcadian 12.69
12 Swedish 12.89
13 Serbian 13.35
14 Norwegian 13.4
15 Southwest_English 13.45
16 Irish 14.04
17 West_Scottish 14.56
18 North_Swedish 14.68
19 Croatian 14.73
20 Moldavian 16.18

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 55.4% Southeast_English + 44.6% Serbian @ 3.78
2 63.8% West_German + 36.2% Hungarian @ 4.15
3 58.2% North_Swedish + 41.8% North_Italian @ 4.15
4 55.6% Hungarian + 44.4% Southeast_English @ 4.18
5 57.4% South_Dutch + 42.6% Hungarian @ 4.21
6 84% West_German + 16% Belorussian @ 4.32
7 52.2% Austrian + 47.8% West_German @ 4.34
8 84.2% West_German + 15.8% Estonian_Polish @ 4.34
9 71.4% French + 28.6% Belorussian @ 4.35
10 81.1% West_German + 18.9% Ukrainian @ 4.35
11 78.9% West_German + 21.1% South_Polish @ 4.36
12 51.4% Orcadian + 48.6% Serbian @ 4.39
13 84% West_German + 16% Southwest_Russian @ 4.39
14 76.3% West_German + 23.7% Croatian @ 4.39
15 58.3% West_German + 41.7% East_German @ 4.49
16 61.8% Southeast_English + 38.2% Romanian @ 4.49
17 65.6% Southeast_English + 34.4% Bulgarian @ 4.51
18 82.3% West_German + 17.7% Polish @ 4.52
19 84.6% West_German + 15.4% Russian_Smolensk @ 4.54
20 63.1% North_Swedish + 36.9% Tuscan @ 4.54

From Novosibirsk, Russia with a German surname. Looks like one of the "returnees" I just described above. And it's not even the most extreme case.

North_Atlantic 31.58 Pct
Baltic 37.21 Pct
West_Med 12.71 Pct
West_Asian 6.62 Pct
East_Med 5.86 Pct
Red_Sea -
South_Asian 0.23 Pct
East_Asian 0.88 Pct
Siberian 2.4 Pct
Amerindian 1.03 Pct
Oceanian 1.3 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.17 Pct

Distance to: K.
3.37587026 Slovak
3.49977142 Czech
5.25851690 Hungarian_North
5.43934739 Ukrainian_Galicia
5.64679555 Polish_South
5.76748645 Slovenian
5.89548132 Sorb
6.13911231 Lemko_Poland
6.18981421 Croat_North
6.71973958 Polish_Lesser_Poland

Target: K.
Distance: 1.1953% / 1.19534676 | ADC: 0.25x RC
45.1 German_East
25.2 Polish_Silesia
21.1 Lemko_Poland
5.9 Komi
1.9 Altai
0.8 Papuan

Target: K.
Distance: 2.1852% / 2.18516496 | ADC: 0.5x RC
63.5 Czech
28.1 Slovak
5.1 Komi
3.3 Bashkir

Target: K.
Distance: 2.3505% / 2.35048477 | R2P
56.9 Russian_Tver-Yaroslavl
43.1 Swiss_French

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Creoda

I admit it's rather arbitrary, but you have to draw the line somewhere regarding homogeneity - parts of Germany have vastly different ancestral origins, and are closer to foreign nations than to people within the borders of their own nation. It's worthy of distinction from the more homogenous, natural nations with essentially the same origins.

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Okay, I just remark that Europe roughly has a linear bio-geographic cline. The smaller you make a unit, the more homogenous it will be and vice versa. Also, whatever unit you chose, if you chose an individual from close to the border he will be genetically closer to an individual on the other side of the border than to geographically farther away individuals within the unit. So that circumstance will whatever unit show. I say this just as principal conclusion out of such a mentioned cline.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Creoda

I guess you could say that 'British people' have a notable cline, by which I assume you mean notable genetic difference, but 1. it's not nearly as big as what exists in Germany, France and Italy, and 2. I don't consider the 'British' or the United Kingdom a proper nation either, it is a recent political invention, more of a state-nation like aforesaid countries, not a true nation-state. English, Scots, Welsh and Irish are the real, ancient nations with a great deal of homogeneity.

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Okay, with that measure you will inevitable restrict a "nation proper" to a certain size.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Creoda

I never claimed Australia is a proper nation in the European sense. It is a different animal altogether, another state-nation, built around an Anglo-Celtic ethnic/cultural nucleus.

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But it would fulfill, though big, your requirement for a "nation proper" in the aspect of homogeneity.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Creoda

Not necessarily, just common origins and strong overlap. I mean all of Northwest+Central-West Europe has a 'cline', and arguably most of Europe too. If the EU begins federalising and forcing everyone to speak a common language, in 100 years is it a proper nation, if Europeans start identifying as such?

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If I skip all my rejecting comments on this scenario and strictly stick to your theoretical question, I'd answer that with: yes, I think so.

We will likely also deal with the topic of relatedness in this conext. But I'd like to add another aspect of a people ("nation proper") that I think is important and that's the aspect of a reproductive community (Fortpflanzungsgemeinschaft). Imo this is maybe even the most important aspect of a people (nation proper). If you run a reproduction community for quite a while this will end up in a mutual relatedness.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Leto

Born in MeckPomm, lives in Baden-Württemberg. This woman has dark hair and eyes, by the way

North_Atlantic 42.62 Pct
Baltic 30.64 Pct
West_Med 10.58 Pct
West_Asian 6.62 Pct
East_Med 4.99 Pct
Red_Sea 0.7 Pct
South_Asian 1.5 Pct
East_Asian -
Siberian 1.22 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.31 Pct
Northeast_African 0.84 Pct
Sub-Saharan -

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 North_German 5.15
2 East_German 6.29
3 Swedish 6.44
4 Austrian 6.81
5 Danish 7.61
6 North_Swedish 7.85
7 North_Dutch 8.11
8 Norwegian 8.38
9 West_German 8.86
10 South_Dutch 9.3
11 Orcadian 9.97
12 Southeast_English 10.28
13 Hungarian 10.29
14 Irish 10.92
15 West_Scottish 11.78
16 Southwest_English 12.17
17 Southwest_Finnish 13.98
18 South_Polish 14.54
19 French 15.15
20 Croatian 15.27

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 74.5% North_German + 25.5% South_Polish @ 1.34
2 77.7% North_German + 22.3% Ukrainian @ 1.34
3 77.1% North_German + 22.9% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 1.42
4 80.8% North_German + 19.2% Southwest_Russian @ 1.5
5 69.1% Danish + 30.9% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 1.59
6 84.6% North_German + 15.4% Erzya @ 1.64
7 62% Swedish + 38% Hungarian @ 1.66
8 73.7% Swedish + 26.3% Serbian @ 1.68
9 82.6% North_German + 17.4% Kargopol_Russian @ 1.71
10 81.2% North_German + 18.8% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 1.76
11 81.2% North_German + 18.8% Estonian_Polish @ 1.81
12 66.1% Danish + 33.9% South_Polish @ 1.85
13 77.6% Swedish + 22.4% Romanian @ 1.86
14 77.9% North_German + 22.1% Polish @ 1.87
15 55.3% Norwegian + 44.7% Hungarian @ 1.89
16 80.9% North_German + 19.1% Russian_Smolensk @ 1.9
17 51.5% Swedish + 48.5% Austrian @ 1.91
18 79.8% Swedish + 20.2% Bulgarian @ 1.92
19 67.3% Danish + 32.7% Croatian @ 1.92
20 70.1% Danish + 29.9% Ukrainian @ 1.93

Pretty Slav-blooded too. If only Gedmatch had existed 80 years ago, maybe the Nazis wouldn't have invaded us. So many lives would have been spared. Oh well :ohwell:

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Russians themselves (or original Russian Jews communists + Georgian Stalin) were responsible for way more deaths than invading Germans though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roy

Russians themselves (or original Russian Jews communists + Georgian Stalin) were responsible for way more deaths than invading Germans though.

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It's embarrassing (very low) what Russians did to Poles during WW2. Even Polish Jews ran towards the West to be captured by Nazis.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Smitty

Another point, there should be a good deal of interrelatedness among Germans. Maybe not so much between north and south (I'd be interested in that), but certainly east and west, since East Germany was settled by West Germans during the Ostsiedlung. Yes, they absorbed Slavic blood and were changed to a certain degree, but they were still related, which is for me an important part of the idea of nationhood.

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I can connect to that aspect. I'm not so keen on emphasizing the Germanic narrative, because this is mostly overrated in it's genetical weight. But actually there is an ancestral commonality to the whole German people (except maybe Upper Silesians that where Polish speakers at abt. 1900 AD) in the form of the Germanics, who brought and distributed the language. Besides this many Germans are also connected by Celtic or Slavic ancestry, but these ties are not nationwide. But the Germanics are. To make an estimate, this Germanic nationwide commonality will not exceed 20% genetically, which means that the parts of the German people with the least proportion of Germanic ancestry will not exceed 20% Germanic ancestry.

As for interrelatedness it has to be added that the German people currently is a reproductive community and was this also centuries ago. This means intermarriages throughout the German people. I do ancestry research and do now have 1000+ known ancestors. I attach a map with birth or living locations from the last 500 years. I presuppose that it's approximately known where the German people lived on this map. Most of the locations in Central Poland refer to German settlers of Pomeranian stock. However it's visible that I have ancestral ties all over the area of the German people. Small parts are even coming from Switzerland, South Tirol, Austria and Elsaß. I will of course not be the only one with such ancestry. So also in the last centuries there is by the fact that the German people is a reproductive community caused an additional geneaological interrelatedness.

https://i.imgur.com/iwEjFM3.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roy

Russians themselves (or original Russian Jews communists + Georgian Stalin) were responsible for way more deaths than invading Germans though.

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I don't think so - for example my family only had casualties caused by the Germans.

I guess it would have to be counted family by family. There has been such an effort:

https://straty.pl/ - everyone can submit their own dead relatives here

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roy

Russians themselves (or original Russian Jews communists + Georgian Stalin) were responsible for way more deaths than invading Germans though.

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Listen, my comment wasn't about what is worse - Nazism vs Communism. Don't try to pull your Russophobia on me or I will avoid you and won't engage with you. For example I stopped talking to P. months ago for other reasons but one thing I've barely gotten from him is Russophobia. His attitude towards Germany is none of my business. I'm positive towards both countries, probably more pro-German than many Germans themselves today.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Leto

one thing I've barely gotten from him is Russophobia.

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Poles who are Russophobic are the ones who haven't read (or read but did not understand) anything about Roman Dmowski. While Dmowski had no love for Russia (it is not true that he was a Russophile), he understood that Germany is a greater, existential, threat to Poland.

Russia is also a threat, but not an existential one.

Dmowski's choice between Russia vs. Germany was a choice between lesser evil vs. greater evil.

Accusing him of Russophilia is ridiculous.

Let's not turn this thread into something unrelated! I probably shouldn't have mentioned the Nazis, my fault.