Meh, it really remains to be seen anyway. Geneticists have had a pretty good run at contructing phylogenetic trees but they can't seem to agree on how to date these things.
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Meh, it really remains to be seen anyway. Geneticists have had a pretty good run at contructing phylogenetic trees but they can't seem to agree on how to date these things.
R1a was definitely in North/Central Europe 4,600 years ago, because we have the skeletons to prove it. It remains to be seen whether R1b was there as well at that time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridie
Modern haplogroup frequencies don't mean much.
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/att...1&d=1322928394
Black = haplogroups associated with the neolithic "first farmers", Blue = pre-farming or Indo-European haplogroups.
Map created by shading in haplogroups map in two shades.
Farming would have be transmitted by a few farmers, a lot in the SE to negligible amounts in the NW.
Exactly. PC bullshit would write it like we are one of the same with the modern Middle Easterners.Quote:
Another thing to keep in mind in these PC times with sensationalist headlines like "European men are descended from Middle East Farmers" is this: let's say for the sake of argument that is ineed so and that the mighty R1b was carried into Europe by a bunch of farming usurpers from the east. In modern day populations of the Middle East, R1b is rare to non-existent. Therefore, all the R1bs left, creating a vaccum for the J & E lineages that now dominate the Middle East. The highest percentages of one clade or another of R1b in the east are found in Anatolia (15%) and amongst Ossetians (43%).
Even E3b1 associated with first farmers changed in Europe.
I go with either Palaeolithic or via the Indo-European invasions (partially replacing I), but I think it's Palaeolithic.Quote:
My money is still on one of two scenarios: R1b is either a lineage of the Paleolithic/Mesolithic times in Europe or, it actually came to Europe after the introduction of agriculture on the backs of horses from the steppes.
:thumb001:Quote:
R1b is probably a Paleolithic lineage. Most Paleolithic Europeans adopted agriculture through cultural diffusion, not demic diffusion.
These correlates roughly to the "first farmer" haplogroups on the map above.Quote:
According to Kalevi Wiik, demic diffusion happened only in the blue area, everything outside that area was cultural diffusion. The black dots shows the border between demic and cultural diffusion.