Is my mother ''German'' actually Germanised Slovenian?

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Originally Posted by Peterski

In Germany there is a sharp genetic border between Nordrhein-Westfalen and Rheinland-Pfalz.

Basically there is no intermediate "Central" zone*, you get either North German genetics or South German genetics.

But from Bavaria to Grand Est you have a Celto-Germanic continuum and a lot of similarity there:
(this continuum also extends into Belgium and South Netherlands, which are more southern-shifted than Nordrhein)

https://i.imgur.com/tInGrK6.png

*If an intermediate zone exists then it must be very thin, just like intermediate NW French vs. SW French zone must be very thin.

In Western France, you also get either Breton-like genetics or Aquitanian-like genetics, with little or no intermediate "central" zone.

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I think like in Germany there's a NW/SW-SE gap clearly.

See where people from Lyon in north plot, they are all north of the "French" average whereas southern french are either more southern or equally southern than it.

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Yes, definitely closer to Rhone-Alpes than to Alsace or regions further north. And Romandy (French Switzerland) is also like that.

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I think that Burgundy is more southern shifted than French Switzerland that borders Allemanic Switzerland, there's a barrier between these two regions called Jura, and Vosges in the north of Burgundy. I would go for the same conclusion for High-Savoy :

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...90/unknown.png

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

She should be around 30% German, however she doesn't score any, not on FTDNA, not on DNA Land, not on gedmatch where she is little south from me.
One minor part of her German ancestry is from Alsace, and the biggest chunk (Danube Swabian) isn't known. My uncle claims it's from Austria.

Could their German ancestry be mostly Germanised Slovenian and that is why she scores like she does, and I get huge amount of Slovenian on 23andme.
My father is 1/8 NW Croat, but my eastern Euro/Slovenian chunk is far too large to be explained by that only.

On G25 I am came cloest to Slovenian minority from NE Italy.

My mother
https://i.imgur.com/Aj5zbuV.png

Me
https://i.imgur.com/fKaSisM.png

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Based on what you reported, especially the lack of German regions on Gedmatch makes it pretty unlikely that she has any significant German ancestry. Real Danube Swabians should score much-much higher German regions, at least Austrian and East German, as most Hungarians with Danube Swabian ancestry score on Gedmatch. Definitely I would advise for searching in the archives about the birth certificates of her parents and grandparents, and so on. They could definitely make more light if they were Germanized Slavs or not, which seems to be the case. But I may be wrong, I'm just speculating.

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Originally Posted by Samnium

I think like in Germany there's a NW/SW-SE gap clearly.

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Nope, there is no big difference between South-West and South-East Germany (Bavaria).

Slavic influence starts in Thuringia and is immediately very strong (already in Thuringia).

There is some Slavic influence in Obefranken, but it is not part of "historical Bavaria".

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Germany can be divided into three main genetic clusters:

- North-Western
- Southern (both SW and SE)
- Eastern (starts in Thuringia)

Thuringer Wald divides Eastern and Southern clusters:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...inger_Wald.png

Border between NW and Eastern clusters is in Mecklenburg.

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Originally Posted by Peterski

Nope, there is no big difference between South-West and South-East Germany (Bavaria).

Slavic influence starts in Thuringia and is immediately very strong (already in Thuringia).

There is some Slavic influence in Obefranken, but it is not part of "historical Bavaria".

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Before 23andme update I had Thuringia as region in Germany.

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Originally Posted by Dunai

Based on what you reported, especially the lack of German regions on Gedmatch makes it pretty unlikely that she has any significant German ancestry. Real Danube Swabians should score much-much higher German regions, at least Austrian and East German, as most Hungarians with Danube Swabian ancestry score on Gedmatch. Definitely I would advise for searching in the archives about the birth certificates of her parents and grandparents, and so on. They could definitely make more light if they were Germanized Slavs or not, which seems to be the case. But I may be wrong, I'm just speculating.

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This story is very bizzare. They were suposed to be part Jews too, possibly Greek as well but they get none of it.

And funny thing is my mom and her brother look like stereotypical Germans (blonds with square jaw and Faelid phenotype), but genetically only mtdna witness to that and the rest not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peterski

Nope, there is no big difference between South-West and South-East Germany (Bavaria).

Slavic influence starts in Thuringia and is immediately very strong (already in Thuringia).

There is some Slavic influence in Obefranken, but it is not part of "historical Bavaria".

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Germany can be divided into three main genetic clusters:

- North-Western
- Southern (both SW and SE)
- Eastern (starts in Thuringia)

Thuringer Wald divides Eastern and Southern clusters:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...inger_Wald.png

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When I said NW/SW-SE I included SW and SE french in the same "population", there isn't that much difference between SW and SE French though SW are more Basque shifted for obvious reasons.

^^^
Okay I misunderstood your post, I thought you meant there is a gap between SW and SE.

And you meant NW vs. SW-SE. Yes I agree, no big difference between SW and SE.

On the other hand, East Germany is very different from both North-Western and Southern.

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Originally Posted by Samnium

When I said NW/SW-SE I included SW and SE french in the same "population"

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There is more difference between SW French and SE French, than between SW German and SE German.

Provence is different than Aquitaine. Aquitanians are simply Latinized Basques. Aquitanians are not Celts.

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

This story is very bizzare. They were suposed to be part Jews too, possibly Greek as well but they get none of it.

And funny thing is my mom and ger brother look like stereotypical Germans (blonds with square jaw and Faelid phenotype), bur genetically only mtdna make sense and the rest not.

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The thing is that you can inherit various proportions and theoretically you should get 50/50 from your two parents but your plotting can be like "60% father" and "40% mother". What I observed by the way it's that most of the time it's the "father" side that shift the more. You can inherit little from one grandparent (or great-grandparent) and much more for another, it's not exactly 25/25/25/25, or 12.5/... . The more you go back in time the less you're "related".

I ordered mtdna full sequence on FTDNA few days ago by the way. I am H10e but interested in matches. It seems very Germanic/NW Euro based on modern distribution and ancient samples but we will see.

Aquitanians are just Latinized Basques, while Provence has no Basque genetics at all.

It might have Iberian-like genes, but they do not share Basque-specific genetic drift.

And of course Italian-like admixture is the strongest in South-Eastern France.