https://cs9.pikabu.ru/post_img/big/2...3148099272.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Rethel
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https://cs9.pikabu.ru/post_img/big/2...3148099272.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Rethel
What is the percentage of Poles with German/Germanic ancestry?
Noone knows. I guess it is 10%.Quote:
Originally Posted by Token
But some partial regional comparitions show even more.
Anyhow, he was an ethnic German but I still identify as Slavic since most of my family is Polish and Czech. My Slavo-Germanic surname is "Bernatowicz", comes from German name "Bernhard."
Eeee... Bernat could be anyone. Even a Pole. Just a name.Quote:
Originally Posted by Polak
Is it significant or just distant and minor ancestry? Do they identify more with German/Germanic or Polish/Slavic culture?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rethel
Normal ancestry, direct, what else could be?Quote:
Originally Posted by Token
Normal polish German is totaly assimilated.Quote:
Do they identify more with German/Germanic or Polish/Slavic culture?
Yes but they weren't Poles, so there is that. "Bernhard" name is Germanic anyhow, so irregardless whether they were Germanic, Slavic, both or neither; they had a Slavo-Germanic surname and their ancestor lived amongst Germanics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rethel
So they are mostly German and just culturally Polish?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rethel
When and where they were?Quote:
Originally Posted by Polak
It doesn't necessarly mean that guy was a German.Quote:
so there is that. "Bernhard" name is Germanic anyhow, so irregardless whether they were Germanic, Slavic, both or neither; they had a Slavo-Germanic surname and their ancestor lived amongst Germanics.
German names were very popular almost since ever.
The very son of Mieszko the first had german name.
100% Germans speaking and dancing in polish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Token
Sad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rethel
They lived in the Russian Empire, then the 2nd Polish Republic and finally the USSR. They always said that they were originally German, they were Catholic but spoke Russian as mother-tongue (instead of Polish or German), they were also "mobbed" by local populations (whether they were Poles or Russians). You tell m what they were, they certainly weren't Poles.
Why?Quote:
Originally Posted by Token
Is it sad, that american English does not speak with received
pronounciantion neither parade with the portraits of the Queen?
Some strange recent mishmash.Quote:
Originally Posted by Polak
And I doubt if the surname originated just recently among rusgermans.
No. They're PolGermans. That's about it. Lol
If the guy in this case is a fully English American, which is very rare today, then yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rethel
What do you mean by ancestry? Some admixture or Y-DNA?Quote:
Originally Posted by Token
Because Rethel of course means Y-DNA haplo / patrilineage.
Autossomal admixture.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterski
How very rare? :blink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Token
If they did founded the state, if they are at least 80 mln people, how it is rare? :picard1:
Then probably 100% of Poles have some Germanic admixture.Quote:
Originally Posted by Token
As for patrilineage - for example my surname is Slavic, but I have a Non-Slavic Y-DNA (R1b-L617), which must be a leftover from Iron Age inhabitants. It has nothing to do with Germans (Deutsche).
R1b-L617 is not even common in Germany, but more to the west:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...-Map-of-R-L617
On the other hand, my mother's surname is of Germanic origin.
As your case clearly shows, not about haplo, but the second.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterski
Haplo can be older than Germans, Poles, and unmemorable times.
In this duo (pol vs. ger) it would have only meaning if is not R1.
North-Americans are mostly a mix of different European ethnicities, German being the most prominent followed by Irish and English.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rethel
Yeah but what I mean by Non-Slavic is that it did not expand during Slavic Migrations, as you can clearly tell considering what is its age (much older) and distribution (no correlation with Slavic languages). But it also does not correlate with Germans. It was probably from Celts who settled in Poland.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rethel
In 1980 census, English was actually the most frequently reported ancestry in the USA:Quote:
Originally Posted by Token
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...64#post4675264
Genetic studies (Bryc 2015) also show that British ancestry is higher than German.
You are talking about specifically German ancestry or general Germanic? Germanic is a too broadly category and even the majority of Southern Europeans have some Germanic admixture.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterski
And what? People who came on Mayflower are suddenly Indians? Or maybe Germans? :picard2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Token
The link doesn;t work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterski
General Germanic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Token
The distribution of people with R1b-L617 (as of December 2016):Quote:
Originally Posted by Rethel
http://i.imgur.com/87kvu5Y.png
Could be from the Lugii (Lugians), which is a Celtic ethnonym:
http://i.imgur.com/91eYtUe.png
I don't know what you are talking about, why you don't try to be more direct and objective? I just believe that ancestry and culture needs to walk side by side.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rethel
What about specific German ancestry?Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterski
Yes, but the farest as you can go is polishness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterski
Slavness?
You could argue, but always will be buts...
Similar case is the king of Holland. Is he German (as oldest memory says) or Slav (as hg points)?
I would not be able to say clearly, becasue it could be that some "slavic clades" were earlier as
we think they were. Maybe with time and more kopalnych samples it could be determined easier,
but in such cases the farest as I would go it is familiy's matter to decide with which identify more.
Probably. But I would not totaly exclude Szottish element.Quote:
But it also does not correlate with Germans. It was probably from Celts who settled in Poland.
As they started to going stupid at that time, I trust more polish wikiQuote:
In 1980 census, English was the most frequently reported ancestry in the USA:
which says 80mln, and what was not so far ago on english wiki too.
The points in Lithuania could suggest Szots.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterski
No idea. But you have to know that Germans from areas to the east of the Oder themselves are largely Slavic in terms of genetics. For example this woman has all 16 German great-grandparents, but is autosomally very Slavic-shifted: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...=1#post4280100Quote:
Originally Posted by Token
Surnames of her great-grandparents: Steinbach, Liebenau, Gnoss, Scheffler, Hass, Hasse, Voss, Zimmermann, Kopiske, Eichstädt, Feustel, Schmeisser, Hedke, Lück, Neumann, Schulz
Birthplaces of her ancestors (mostly in former West Prussia):
http://i.imgur.com/n2ExaaO.png
And her DNA results give her "Polish" in Single Population Sharing:
Eurogenes K13 results:
Kit A682720
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 Baltic 40.43
2 North_Atlantic 37.01
3 West_Med 12.1
4 West_Asian 4.1
5 East_Med 3.24
6 Red_Sea 1.43
7 Northeast_African 0.63
8 Oceanian 0.6
9 South_Asian 0.43
10 Amerindian 0.03
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Polish 6.86
2 Polish 7.61
3 Southwest_Finnish 8.08
4 East_German 8.42
5 Ukrainian 9.22
6 Ukrainian_Lviv 9.24
7 North_Swedish 9.5
8 Austrian 10.9
9 Hungarian 11.08
10 Russian_Smolensk 11.11
11 Belorussian 11.32
12 Croatian 11.49
13 Estonian_Polish 11.6
14 Estonian 11.88
15 Finnish 12.26
16 Southwest_Russian 12.63
17 Ukrainian_Belgorod 13.04
18 Swedish 13.46
19 Lithuanian 14.72
20 North_German 14.93
^^^
So if some Polish person has a German ancestor with similar genetics, then this Polish person is still not different than an average Pole. Because that German ancestor was very Eastern.
You say, that it is not true, that 80 mln people comes from england, becasue Americans are mixed (as it would be not known). So I asked you - what about people, who came to America on Mayflower. They were from England so logically were Englishmen, so now, since they landed, are american English... or - as you supposed - they in some way became Indians (becasue they live on their land), Germans (becasue as you said, Americans are overwhelmingly of such provenance) or maybe someone else? If so, then how and when they totaly change themsleves and lost their roots replacing them by others? How?Quote:
Originally Posted by Token
If you not follow the culture, you still have ancestry.Quote:
I just believe that ancestry and culture needs to walk side by side.
You can began to foolow chinese culture, but it will
not make you chinese ancestry - or maybe will?
Another reason why it is sensless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterski
It is not. You should finally test your autosomal DNA.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rethel
No, I do no need it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterski
Btw, digging so much in that, you should be able to calculate it.
1/4 from Deafgermania, 1/2 from close translivian Podlachia,
1/16 from prussian Silesia, and 3/16 from western Mazowia.
Now, give me my percentages :p
Mixing with later European migrants. The North-American culture is a fusion of several Northwest-European and even Southern European cultures (with the English/Anglo-Saxon still being the main component) that, thanks to the several years spent in a totally different continent, developed his own particularities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rethel
No and this is exactly why i say that ancestry and culture needs to walk side by side. You can follow the chinese culture but if you are not a chinese by blood you are just a intruder.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rethel
Yes of course - does it change the fact, that american English is not american English?Quote:
Originally Posted by Token
did he suddenly lost his provenance, ancestors, history and everything becasue he participates in new enviroment??? :confused:
So what is your problem with English or Germans in this case?Quote:
No and this is exactly why i say that ancestry and culture needs to walk side by side. You can follow the chinese culture but if you are not a chinese by blood you are just a intruder.
Not following the culture doesn;t cancel the blood. One can always
start to cultivate some meaningless customs, if it hurts you so much...
It doesn;t work opposite way...