Arpad dynasty DNA (kings of Hungary & Croatia)

http://eujournal.org/index.php/esj/a...File/4182/4018

THE STORY OF TWO NORTHWARD MIGRATIONS - ORIGINS OF FINNO - PERMIC AND BALTO - SLAVIC LANGUAGES IN NORTHEAST EUROPE, BASED ON HUMAN Y - CHROMOSOME HAPLOGROUPS

in short R1a M558 carried Ugro-Permiac languages, R1a M458 with I2a was already "Slavic"


Карта генетических расстояний от популяции эрзя до популяций Евразии. Зеленым цветом обозначены зоны генетического сходства (О.П.Балановский) // Map of genetic distances from the Erzya population to the populations of Eurasia. Green areas denote zones of genetic similarity (OP Balanovskiy)
http://xn--c1acc6aafa1c.xn--p1ai/wp-...01-494x500.jpg

http://генофонд.рф/wp-content/uploads/2.5.jpg

http://генофонд.рф/wp-content/uploads/2.4.jpg

http://генофонд.рф/wp-content/uploads/2.3.jpg

maps source: http://генофонд.рф/?page_id=5629

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Coinneach

http://eujournal.org/index.php/esj/a...File/4182/4018

THE STORY OF TWO NORTHWARD MIGRATIONS - ORIGINS OF FINNO - PERMIC AND BALTO - SLAVIC LANGUAGES IN NORTHEAST EUROPE, BASED ON HUMAN Y - CHROMOSOME HAPLOGROUPS

in short R1a M558 carried Ugro-Permiac languages, R1a M458 with I2a was already "Slavic"


Карта генетических расстояний от популяции эрзя до популяций Евразии. Зеленым цветом обозначены зоны генетического сходства (О.П.Балановский) // Map of genetic distances from the Erzya population to the populations of Eurasia. Green areas denote zones of genetic similarity (OP Balanovskiy)
http://xn--c1acc6aafa1c.xn--p1ai/wp-...01-494x500.jpg

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Oh my I love Russian Cyrillic it's like you almost can understand it, but you can't.

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Originally Posted by Stearsolina

So you think Z280 wasn't original Ugric marker ?

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Inner and Central Asia is an overlap zone for the R1a1-Z280 and R1a1-Z93 lineages [which] implies that an early differentiation zone of R1a1-M198 conceivably occurred somewhere within the Eurasian Steppes or the Middle East and Caucasus region as they lie between South Asia and Central- and Eastern Europe."
Pamjav, Horolma; Fehér, Tibor; Németh, Endre; Pádár, Zsolt (2012), "Brief communication: new Y-chromosome binary markers improve phylogenetic resolution within haplogroup R1a1", American Journal of Physical Anthropology, 149 (4): 611–615, doi:10.1002/ajpa.22167, PMID 23115110

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Originally Posted by Bosniensis

Oh my I love Russian Cyrillic it's like you almost can understand it, but you can't.

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How you can't? I actually understood this sentence. :D

This is what they think on Hungarian FTDNA project

R1a-Z280: the North-EastEuropean subclade of R1a-M417, approximately 4700 years old. It is common from the Baltic to the Urals as well as the Carpathian Basin. Part of the Steppe Magyars likely belonged to this group, as the “Carpathian B type” typically appears in Russia and the Carpathian Basin. The “Carpathian D type” is typical for Slovenes and Hungarians. The Z92 subgroup is more typical for Northeast Europe (Balts, Russians and Volga Finns). The subgroups of M458 and Z280 might be linked to Bronze Age Central European Lusatian Culture (1300-500 BC) basedon their age and geographic spread.
R1a-Z93: the Asian subgroup of R1a-M417, approximately 4700 years old. It is common among Altaian Turks, Kyrghyz, Ashkenazi Jews, Indians and Eastern Iranians. Associated with the Central Asian Bronze Age Andronovo culture. In the Carpathian basin, it can be considered as Turkic admixture.


https://www.familytreedna.com/groups.../about/results

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stearsolina

But Z280 is common only in Europe, among Baltic, Slavic and Finno Ugric groups. They definitelly aren't turkic.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vlatko Vukovic

Z280 can't be Turkic in any case. Same as M458.

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The proto - Magyars were a blend of Ugric and Turkic peoples, with a Turkic culture and a fusion of Uralic (Ugric branch) and Turkic words for the language. Therefore it does not surprise me if the R1 downstream is either.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blogen

Inner and Central Asia is an overlap zone for the R1a1-Z280 and R1a1-Z93 lineages [which] implies that an early differentiation zone of R1a1-M198 conceivably occurred somewhere within the Eurasian Steppes or the Middle East and Caucasus region as they lie between South Asia and Central- and Eastern Europe."
Pamjav, Horolma; Fehér, Tibor; Németh, Endre; Pádár, Zsolt (2012), "Brief communication: new Y-chromosome binary markers improve phylogenetic resolution within haplogroup R1a1", American Journal of Physical Anthropology, 149 (4): 611–615, doi:10.1002/ajpa.22167, PMID 23115110

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:thumb001:

Because of fact that Hungarians (whatever they were called back then) took Christianity and were baptized they rescued original R1a language of Ugro-Permic folk, conquerors (Rome Christianity) impose rules, religion and language. White Croats and Serbs went south (or already were there) imposed their language to other Sarmatians (like R1a M458 people)

easy as that

I2a1 is Turkic

R1a is Indo-European Balkan Native & Slavic.

Avars came to Dalmatia as I2a1, conquered it, pillaged it and now we live here.

Bosniaks, Serbs and Croats who carry I2 are Avars Turks children of Bayan.

R1a are Slavic & Native survivors who fled to Hungary and North East.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Turul Karom

The proto - Magyars were a blend of Ugric and Turkic peoples, with a Turkic culture and a fusion of Uralic (Ugric branch) and Turkic words for the language. Therefore it does not surprise me if the R1 downstream is either.

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Problem is that Z280 is by far most common type of R1a is all southern slavic countries (except Bulgaria), and we don't have any known Turkic connections.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Coinneach

Because of fact that Hungarians (whatever they was called back then) took Christianity and were baptized they rescued original R1a language of Ugro-Permic folk, conquerors (Rome Christianity) impose rules, religion and language. White Croats and Serbs went south (or already were there) imposed their language to other Sarmatians (like R1a M458 people)

easy as that

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So you think that White Croats and Serbs "slavicized" Rethelites? Then from where they picked up this language, since I2-Din didn't speak IE haha.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Turul Karom

The proto - Magyars were a blend of Ugric and Turkic peoples, with a Turkic culture and a fusion of Uralic (Ugric branch) and Turkic words for the language. Therefore it does not surprise me if the R1 downstream is either.

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The Turks where nowhere when the proto-Magyars existed in the Western Siberian steppe (Cherkaskul culture). They were Aryan-Ugric admixture between the frames of the post-Andronovan world. The early medieval Magyars admixed with Turks from the West Old Turkic speakers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stearsolina

Problem is that Z280 is by far most common type of R1a is all southern slavic countries (except Bulgaria), and we don't have any known Turkic connections.

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Not all Z280 are Balto-Slavic exclusively. There are some exceptions.

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Originally Posted by Bosniensis

I do attack modern Turks from Turkey because they are not real Turks but fake Turks.

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How do you mean, the ones mixed with persian origins and arabs in Turkey? Because thats what happened and still being happened today, their DNA is changing

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vlatko Vukovic

Not all Z280 are Balto-Slavic exclusively. There are some exceptions.

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Yes, it is common in Finno Ugric groups as well. But not among Turks. Only among Tatars and Chuvash, who are largerly turkicized Volga Finnic peoples.

Central Asian Turks are by far pred. Z93.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vlatko Vukovic

So you think that White Croats and Serbs "slavicized" Rethelites? Then from where they picked up this language, since I2-Din didn't speak IE haha.

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Svaanik Kumar explain South Slavic & Sanskrit similarities, and please also note that Old-Avestan is also closer to South Slavic than to R1ethelite languages

https://youtu.be/ptDVaVlw9m4

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Turul Karom

The proto - Magyars were a blend of Ugric and Turkic peoples, with a Turkic culture and a fusion of Uralic (Ugric branch) and Turkic words for the language. Therefore it does not surprise me if the R1 downstream is either.

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Wrong again. Some loanwords doesn't make a language turkic. Before the language reforms of Kazinczy and his later followers, Hungarians have much more Latin and Germanic words in the vocabulary than Turkic. In the Old pre-19th century Hungarian vocabulary The most common was finno-ugric (and still the majority of the word are finno ugric origin,) It was followed by Slav Latin and Germanic origin words, than it was followed by Iranian and Turkic origin words.

Hungarians simply have the least eastern (mongoloid ) markers in the general population in the former communist Eastern Block countries.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bosniensis

I2a1 is Turkic

R1a is Indo-European Balkan Native & Slavic.

Avars came to Dalmatia as I2a1, conquered it, pillaged it and now we live here.

Bosniaks, Serbs and Croats who carry I2 are Avars Turks children of Bayan.

R1a are Slavic & Native survivors who fled to Hungary and North East.

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I2a1 can't be turkic in any case. Even if Avars had this, those are some assimilated already IE-speaking folks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Buusra

How do you mean, the ones mixed with persian origins and arabs in Turkey? Because thats what happened and still being happened today, their DNA is changing

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Anatolia is mix of everything. To say they are all Turks is ridiculous.

Islamized Armenians, Serbs, Albanians, Syrian, Egyptians + then you have Turks, Mongols

Turkey is the most mixed country in Universe, just check the Haplogroups in Istanbul

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...yan-and-Turkic

How is R-Z93 both Aryan and Turkic?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LoLeL

This Wikipedia map labels it as both Indo-Iranian and Central Asian Turkic. Can someone explain it?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...plogroups1.png

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Coinneach

Svaanik Kumar explain South Slavic & Sanskrit similarities, and please also note that Old-Avestan is also closer to South Slavic than to R1ethelite languages

https://youtu.be/ptDVaVlw9m4

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Yes, bro. But it explains nothing. Lithuanian language is the closest to Sanskrit and they are R1a-Z280 + N. Nothing I2a about them.

In Hungary (and Croatia) group with most Z93 are local Gypsies. Yes, not trolling!

Hungarian and Croatian Gypsies are 30% R1a1- Z93! If Arpad is that, they are more related with them paternally than most of other people in Carpathian Basin.

R1a1a1b2 (R-Z93) (Asia)

R1a1b2a2* (R-M780) occurs at high frequency in South Asia: India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and the Himalayas. The group also occurs at >3% in some Iranian populations and is present at >30% in Roma from Croatia and Hungary.[57]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplog...(R-Z93)_(Asia)

:P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stearsolina

Problem is that Z280 is by far most common type of R1a is all southern slavic countries (except Bulgaria), and we don't have any known Turkic connections.

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Many possibilities. Could be the founder effect. Could be a bottle neck. All of the Balkans post-Rome, from Attila, to Pechenegs, to Avars, to us, was full of Turkic and steppe nomadic peoples, with new Eurasian settlers coming in as well (Kabars, Cumans, etc). This is not a surprise.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blogen

The Turks where nowhere when the proto-Magyars existed in the Western Siberian steppe (Cherkaskul culture). They were Aryan-Ugric admixture between the frames of the post-Andronovan world. The early medieval Magyars admixed with Turks from the West Old Turkic speakers.

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I quote the Encyclopedia Britannica on the ethnicities that would make our ancestral tribal confederations in Central Asia. That is all. Further Turkic infusion would happen for centuries after the founding of Hungary in Europe.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stearsolina

In Hungary (and Croatia) group with most Z93 are local Gypsies. Yes, not trolling!

Hungarian and Croatian Gypsies are 30% R1a1- Z93! If Arpad is that, they are more related with them paternally than most of other people in Carpathian Basin.

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It also depends how representative this group was.
And btw, more southern balkanian groups did not have R1
almost at all. Maybe 3% at best together a and b and 2.
And the testing groups was probably much more representative.

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Originally Posted by Vlatko Vukovic

Yes, bro. But it explains nothing. Lithuanian language is the closest to Sanskrit and they are R1a-Z280 + N. Nothing I2a about them.

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it shows only that locals with R1a came to Europe following their ArI(a2)an teachers :rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stearsolina

R1a1a1b2 (R-Z93) (Asia)

R1a1b2a2* (R-M780) occurs at high frequency in South Asia: India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and the Himalayas. The group also occurs at >3% in some Iranian populations and is present at >30% in Roma from Croatia and Hungary.[57]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplog...(R-Z93)_(Asia)

:P

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:sick2::sick2::sick2::sick2:

:bullet puke:bullet puke:puke::puke::puke:puke

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Originally Posted by Stears

Kazinczy

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A Pole?

Quote:

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and his later followers, Hungarians have much more Latin and Germanic words in the vocabulary than Turkic. In the Old pre-19th century Hungarian vocabulary The most common was finno-ugric (and still the majority of the word are finno ugric origin,) It was followed by Slav Latin and Germanic origin words, than it was followed by Iranian and Turkic origin words.

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How much of each?

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Originally Posted by Buusra

How do you mean, the ones mixed with persian origins and arabs in Turkey? Because thats what happened and still being happened today, their DNA is changing

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With Arabs, Persians, Georgians, Armenians, Greeks, Albanians, Serbs, Croatians, Kurds,...etc...etc

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stears

Wrong again. Some loanwords doesn't make a language turkic. Before the language reforms of Kazinczy and his later followers, Hungarians have much more Latin and Germanic words in the vocabulary than Turkic. In the Old pre-19th century Hungarian vocabulary The most common was finno-ugric (and still the majority of the word are finno ugric origin,) It was followed by Slav Latin and Germanic origin words, than it was followed by Iranian and Turkic origin words.

Hungarians simply have the least eastern (mongoloid ) markers in the general population in the former communist Eastern Block countries.

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We share the same core words for culture and lifestyle, like some foods, family, personal identifiers and basic adjectives. We had the same religion. As Hungarians traveled west, we picked up more words from Slavic and Germanic peoples. No surprise. Our founder's names are all Turkic. Founding dynasty is R1. You quote the source that humorously states the the largest portion of Hungarian words are "unknown".

You did the results. You know you ancestry. You know it is intellectually dishonest to say Turkic people are "pure Mongoloid" in any sense of the word. More and more DNA research is being performed that further shows the Eurasian origins of us, and our Eurasian culture pre-Christianity is already a well known fact and is not debated.

Embrace both your European history and your Eurasian roots.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bosniensis

Anatolia is mix of everything. To say they are all Turks is ridiculous.

Islamized Armenians, Serbs, Albanians, Syrian, Egyptians + then you have Turks, Mongols

Turkey is the most mixed country in Universe, just check the Haplogroups in Istanbul

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Its so normal when you live at the intersection of middle-east, balkans and caucasia, not to mention the migrations from Iraq and Syria

Mongol origin is very rare in Turkey, Turks are neither mongol origin nor middle-eastern

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Originally Posted by blogen

The Turks where nowhere when the proto-Magyars existed in the Western Siberian steppe (Cherkaskul culture). They were Aryan-Ugric admixture between the frames of the post-Andronovan world. The early medieval Magyars admixed with Turks from the West Old Turkic speakers.

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Blogen, what is the reason of the Magyar way of life such similar as Turkic? How it happened? I mean early medieval culture.

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Originally Posted by Bosniensis

I2a1 is Turkic

Avars came to Dalmatia as I2a1, conquered it, pillaged it and now we live here.

Bosniaks, Serbs and Croats who carry I2 are Avars Turks children of Bayan.

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Any DNA test results of Avars? I'd love to see the sources if you have

As far as I read Bosniaks are descendants of Pechenegs (Bachanak=Bosniak), I am not sure about the others

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Originally Posted by Vlatko Vukovic

Blogen, what is the reason of the Magyar way of life such similar as Turkic? How it happened?

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Try to contain your shock, but it is because.... we are Turkic.

http://media.indiatimes.in/media/pho...1376306505.jpg

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Originally Posted by Buusra

As far as I read Bosniaks are descendants of Pechenegs (Bachanak=Bosniak)

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:bowlol: :bowlol: :bowlol: :bowlol:

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Originally Posted by Turul Karom

Try to contain your shock, but it is because.... we are Turkic.

http://media.indiatimes.in/media/pho...1376306505.jpg

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Then who imported to you Ugric language according to you?

https://youtu.be/E9JcPFn8j-c

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Originally Posted by Vlatko Vukovic

Then who imported to you Ugric language according to you?

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Ugric people did, of course. During loose tribal confederation era in Central Asia, before the unity of the "Magyars" into one tribe identity and well before the blood oath at Etelköz, which solidified central organization further under the Árpád dynasty.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Coinneach

https://youtu.be/E9JcPFn8j-c

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https://youtu.be/Ko8B6KYJAo4