Bosniak Gedmatch results

I wonder if Vlatko fucking Vukovic is a match of any of them. I don't even know if that mofo is still on Gedmatch. At least we saved some of his results.

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Originally Posted by Leto

I wonder if Vlatko fucking Vukovic is a match of any of them. I don't even know if that mofo is still on Gedmatch. At least we saved some of his results.

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Do you know which part of Bosnia he's from?

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Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

let's do without for now.
i'll give the mail if sombody wants to message them, they are a very interesting case.

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Cool!
Perhaps Kaspias should, they'd probably rather share info to Pomak/Turk than to us (if they are Bosniaks) :P

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Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

Do you know which part of Bosnia he's from?

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I think he said his parents were from different parts of Bosnia.
I often mention him because I kinda like his results, quite balanced, even with some Mongoloid cherry on top of the cake :cool:

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Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

Do you know which part of Bosnia he's from?

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From what I know, he is from east Bosnia and east Herzegovina (but born Sarajlija). Somebody correct me if wrong.

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Originally Posted by Stearsolina

I don't know, Slavonia wasn't empty when Ottomans came (although it was lowly populated), and I never heard locals escaped Turks somewhere. So probably some converted to Islam.
Dialect isn't best thing to determine ancestry. These things can change in few generations.

Or maybe these settlers from Bosnia (I haven't heard for it btw but possible as settlers from BiH came to Hungary, like my family, so why would Slavonia be exception) came from Posavina or Soli/Usora which are defacto Panonnian regions and had same population like old Slavonia and Hungary?

Just speculating, but perhaps Panonnian Slavs extended south to Posavina and Mačva. Ethnic history of these lowlands is not clar to me.

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Probably some medieval Slavonians stayed under the Ottomans and converted on islam, but small number. According to Ottoman defters Slavonia was almost empty when Ottomans come.
During the 16th century under the Ottoman rule new population from Bosnia, Herzegovina, Raška etc. arrived to Slavonia. Many of that settlers converted to islam.
Look at your paternal ancestors. They settled to Slavonia in 16th century from Popovo Polje in Herzegovina as Ottoman martolos, converted on islam in Slavonia, and in late 17th century they escaped to Dubica when Austrians took Slavonia.

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Originally Posted by Stearsolina

Will we get some updated Bosniak averages with this?

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here it is:

Code:

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Bosniak_Bosnia,25.73,35.04,14.18,8.58,12.19,1.26,0.98,0.31,0.62,0.60,0.25,0.16,0.10

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i already made something like this before, but I didn't have the family tree for family1, and I also got 2 new results since then.

hihihihi.

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Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

here it is:

Code:

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Bosniak_Bosnia,25.73,35.04,14.18,8.58,12.19,1.26,0.98,0.31,0.62,0.60,0.25,0.16,0.10

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i already made something like this before, but I didn't have the family tree for family1, and I also got 2 new results since then.

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Cool! Should old average stay? And Sandžak one, you added new samples to it?

Distance to: Bosniak_Bosnia

1.56163376 Croat_East
2.81209886 Moldova_North
3.29699864 Croat
3.49164718 Bosniak
4.00857830 Croat_South
4.41583514 Ukrainian_Carpathian
4.71554875 Hungarian_Alföld
4.82586780 Croat_West
5.12096671 Croat_North
5.22025861 Moldova_Centre
5.45078893 Moldova_average
5.61677844 Serb_north
5.72807996 Hungarian_Northern
5.80510982 Hungarian
5.98485589 Romania_Moldavia_North
6.49907686 Csángó-Ceangău
6.68534965 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest
6.72713907 Slovenian
7.20150679 Serb
7.28224553 Székely
7.29778734 Hungarian_Transylvania_Szekely
7.33277574 Serb_central
7.41681873 Slovak
7.46067021 Ukrainian_Galicia
7.72583329 Moldova_Ukrainian

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Originally Posted by Stearsolina

Cool! Should old average stay?

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yes, to represent the other regions.

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Originally Posted by Stearsolina

And Sandžak one, you added new samples to it?

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That's Mingle's domain, he has more samples than me.

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Originally Posted by Varda

Probably some medieval Slavonians stayed under the Ottomans and converted on islam, but small number. According to Ottoman defters Slavonia was almost empty when Ottomans come.
During the 16th century under the Ottoman rule new population from Bosnia, Herzegovina, Raška etc. arrived to Slavonia. Many of that settlers converted to islam.
Look at your paternal ancestors. They settled to Slavonia in 16th century from Popovo Polje in Herzegovina as Ottoman martolos, converted on islam in Slavonia, and in late 17th century they escaped to Dubica when Austrians took Slavonia.

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I have seen document about Serbs who settled in eastern Slavonia in 16th century from Polimlje (Raška). They are older layer of Serbian population in region. Other Serbs there come from Serbia in 1690 with partiarch Arsenije Čarnojević, or later in 18th and 19th century from various regions.
For Serbs from western Slavonia is considered they are mostly descendants of settlers from Bosnia in 16th century.

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Originally Posted by Varda

I have seen document about Serbs who settled in eastern Slavonia in 16th century from Polimlje (Raška). They are older layer of Serbian population in region. Other Serbs there come from Serbia in 1690 with partiarch Arsenije Čarnojević, or later in 18th and 19th century from various regions.
For Serbs from western Slavonia is considered they are mostly descendants of settlers from Bosnia in 16th century.

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Interesting, I didn't know that, but I saw some maps of Slavo-Serbia in Slavonia (and maybe part of south Hungary, don't remember anymore), maybe those are from 16th century.

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Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

yes, to represent the other regions.

That's Mingle's domain, he has more samples than me.

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Makes sense, thanks.

Here are Vlatko Vuković results, they fit very well with new average you made.

Spoiler!

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 35.38
2 North_Atlantic 24.45
3 West_Med 15.36
4 East_Med 11.97
5 West_Asian 8.24
6 Red_Sea 2.1
7 Siberian 1.61
8 Amerindian 0.89

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 3.03
2 Croatian 3.84
3 Hungarian 8.25
4 Serbian 8.35
5 Ukrainian_Lviv 9.19
6 Ukrainian 10.35
7 South_Polish 10.49
8 Romanian 11.41
9 Austrian 12.7
10 East_German 12.82
11 Bulgarian 13.11
12 Southwest_Russian 13.47
13 Polish 13.63
14 Ukrainian_Belgorod 13.9
15 Russian_Smolensk 15.36
16 Estonian_Polish 15.77
17 Belorussian 16.54
18 Kargopol_Russian 17.46
19 Erzya 18.86
20 Tatar 19.45

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 73.8% Ukrainian + 26.2% Central_Greek @ 1.78
2 68.1% Ukrainian + 31.9% Greek_Thessaly @ 1.83
3 74.6% Ukrainian + 25.4% East_Sicilian @ 1.86
4 76.5% Ukrainian + 23.5% South_Italian @ 1.89
5 56% Ukrainian + 44% Bulgarian @ 1.95
6 59.1% Ukrainian_Lviv + 40.9% Bulgarian @ 2.03
7 54.7% Bulgarian + 45.3% Estonian_Polish @ 2.06
8 70.9% Ukrainian_Lviv + 29.1% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.12
9 79% Ukrainian + 21% Algerian_Jewish @ 2.2
10 61.7% Bulgarian + 38.3% Lithuanian @ 2.29
11 54% Bulgarian + 46% Russian_Smolensk @ 2.29
12 79.2% Ukrainian + 20.8% Sephardic_Jewish @ 2.31
13 58.3% Romanian + 41.7% Estonian_Polish @ 2.34
14 76.4% Ukrainian_Lviv + 23.6% Central_Greek @ 2.34
15 78.9% Ukrainian_Lviv + 21.1% South_Italian @ 2.36
16 79.1% Ukrainian + 20.9% Italian_Jewish @ 2.39
17 81.1% Ukrainian_Lviv + 18.9% Algerian_Jewish @ 2.4
18 81.1% Ukrainian + 18.9% Cyprian @ 2.42
19 52.6% Ukrainian + 47.4% Romanian @ 2.42
20 77.2% Ukrainian_Lviv + 22.8% East_Sicilian @ 2.44

Distance to: Vlatko_Vuković

2.33908102 Moldova_North
2.49695815 Bosniak_Bosnia
2.97931200 Croat_East
3.88749277 Bosniak
4.55938592 Croat
4.62691042 Croat_South
4.94420873 Ukrainian_Carpathian
5.27978219 Moldova_Centre
5.38522980 Moldova_average
5.81515262 Serb_north
5.90623399 Hungarian_Alföld
6.01506442 Croat_West
6.31660510 Romania_Moldavia_North
6.38607078 Croat_North
7.06160039 Csángó-Ceangău
7.09909149 Hungarian_Northern
7.12096201 Hungarian
7.25647986 Serb
7.46533321 Serb_central
7.98961826 Ukrainian_Galicia
7.99046932 Slovenian
8.00566674 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest
8.03950869 Székely
8.08660003 Hungarian_Transylvania_Szekely
8.14520104 Moldova_Ukrainian

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Originally Posted by Stearsolina

Interesting, I didn't know that, but I saw some maps of Slavo-Serbia in Slavonia (and maybe part of south Hungary, don't remember anymore), maybe those are from 16th century.

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Among present day Serbs from eastern Slavonia descendants of settlers in 16th century are in minority. Most of them came later, from late 17th to the late 19th century. In late 19th century some Serbs from Ozren and Majevica moved to eastern Slavonia, for example in that migration came ancestors of Siniša Mahailović. After WW2 Serbs from Lika colonized Slavonia, not big number.
It seems on average Serbs are present for the longer period in western Slavonia than in eastern Slavonia.

Vlatko is ca. 75% Nordo-Slavic.

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Originally Posted by Leto

Vlatko is ca. 75% Nordo-Slavic.

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Did you get orgasm on his northernes?

Muslim remains Muslim, even with 100% "Nordo-Slavic".

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Originally Posted by Varda

Among present day Serbs from eastern Slavonia descendants of settlers in 16th century are in minority. Most of them came later, from late 17th to the late 19th century. In late 19th century some Serbs from Ozren and Majevica moved to eastern Slavonia, for example in that migration came ancestors of Siniša Mahailović. After WW2 Serbs from Lika colonized Slavonia, not big number.
It seems on average Serbs are present for the longer period in western Slavonia than in eastern Slavonia.

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Probably because eastern Slavonia was a swamp in medieval and almost unpopulated. Lot of disease and malaria.
Only decently populated part of modern day Slavonia before Ottomans was western, Požega valley (also known as golden valley by Romans because it has good conditions to live)

Also in medieval what was known as Slavonia (totorszag in Hungarian) was mostly NW and central Croatia (Zagreb, Križevci, Sisak etc)

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Originally Posted by Stearsolina

Probably because eastern Slavonia was a swamp in medieval and almost unpopulated. Lot of disease and malaria.
Only decently populated part of modern day Slavonia before Ottomans was western, Požega valley (also known as golden valley by Romans because it has good conditions to live)

Also in medieval what was known as Slavonia (totorszag in Hungarian) was mostly NW and central Croatia (Zagreb, Križevci, Sisak etc)

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Present day populations of eastern Slavonia of all ethnicities mostly match with populations of Vojvodina by period when they settled in both regions. Western Slavonia is different story.

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Originally Posted by Dušan

Did you get orgasm on his northernes?

Muslim remains Muslim, even with 100% "Nordo-Slavic".

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They are just converted fucks, so that doesn't matter. I mean I'm very anti-Islam myself but I don't want it to cloud my judgement when it's irrelevant. It's not like Vlatko is an ISIS fighter or anything like that. I don't even know if he believes in God in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Kaspias

East Asian scores? :confused:

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4-5% combined East Asian is perfectly normal for Bosniaks :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Leto

They are just converted fucks, so that doesn't matter. I mean I'm very anti-Islam myself but I don't want it to cloud my judgement when it's irrelevant. It's not like Vlatko is an ISIS fighter or anything like that. I don't even know if he believes in God in the first place.

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If i remember well Vlatko is more formally muslim. He even don't like Turks (quite rare for a Bosniak!). He said his deep paternal origin is somewhere from Montenegro, from there they migrated to Herzegovina, and finally to the Bosnia.

On the other hand Bosniensis (29% Baltic or something) is extreme islamic and pro-Ottoman.

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Originally Posted by Varda

If i remember well Vlatko is more formally muslim. He even don't like Turks (quite rare for a Bosniak!). He said his deep paternal origin is somewhere from Montenegro, from there they migrated to Herzegovina, and finally to the Bosnia.

On the other hand Bosniensis (29% Baltic or something) is extreme islamic and pro-Ottoman.

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Bosniensis is 1/4 Gorani (Kosovo Slavic muslim).
There is another user who is of muslim family origin but has Croatian identity, he plots more north than Vlatko.

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Originally Posted by Varda

If i remember well Vlatko is more formally muslim. He even don't like Turks (quite rare for a Bosniak!). He said his deep paternal origin is somewhere from Montenegro, from there they migrated to Herzegovina, and finally to the Bosnia.

On the other hand Bosniensis (29% Baltic or something) is extreme islamic and pro-Ottoman.

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You can find many "Yugonostalgic" "komunjare" "Titoist" among Bosnia_Bosniaks, that look down on their Ottoman-Islamic culture

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Originally Posted by Stearsolina

Bosniensis is 1/4 Gorani (Kosovo muslim).
There is another user who is of muslim family origin but has Croatian identity, he plots more north than Vlatko.

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Vlatko know that his paternal line came to Sarajevo area from here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bileća
I know his surname, it's quite common among Serbs from Bileća and around. But Serbs from Bileća with his surname are tested as R1a, and Vlatko is I2a.
Deeper origin from Montenegro is more legend in his family.

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Originally Posted by Stearsolina

Bosniensis is 1/4 Gorani (Kosovo Slavic muslim).
There is another user who is of muslim family origin but has Croatian identity, he plots more north than Vlatko.

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Ljubic? Is he really that Slavic?

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Originally Posted by Leto

Ljubic? Is he really that Slavic?

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He's not even fully Croat, but part Serb, German, Czech and Bulgarian :)

Maks Luburić is user I am talking about. I never saw his results but Hrvoje did, and from what he told me he has similar results like me with myheritage raw data.
He can't send me his results because he's banned here and can't access his inbox. That guy never shared them in public.

He is from west Herzegovina and NW Bosnia and in phenotype swarthy/balkan looking, but very northern genetically.

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Originally Posted by RogueState

You can find many "Yugonostalgic" "komunjare" "Titoist" among Bosnia_Bosniaks, that look down on their Ottoman-Islamic culture

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User Vlatko even dislike Sandžakians. He said he doesn't recognized them as part of own ethnicity.

Nigga Bosniensis (from Bihać) is more pro-Ottoman than any Turkksh user here. He dislike modern Turkey because it's secular and gave up from Ottoman heritage according to him. On his avatar was often Omer paša Latas. Bosniensis worship Omer paša Latas, because he destroyed Bosnian and Herzegovinian begovat in the name of holy sultan. :)

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Originally Posted by Varda

User Vlatko even dislike Sandžakians. He said he doesn't recognized them as part of own ethnicity.

Nigga Bosniensis (from Bihać) is more pro-Ottoman than any Turkksh user here. He dislike modern Turkey because it's secular and gave up from Ottoman heritage according to him. On his avatar was often Omer paša Latas. Bosniensis worship Omer paša Latas, because he destroyed Bosnian and Herzegovinian begovat in the name of holy sultan. :)

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Omer Paša Latas was a Serb from Janja Gora, he wasn't even from Bosnia (it's close to the Bihać though).

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Originally Posted by Stearsolina

Omer Paša Latas was a Serb from Janja Gora, he wasn't even from Bosnia (it's close to the Bihać though).

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I know, he was in Austrian military service before escaped to Bosnia and converted on islam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omer_Pasha#Early_life
Many Bosniaks hate Omer paša Latas, but Bosniensis worship him. xD

I know one Serb from Plaški with surname Latas.

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Originally Posted by Varda

User Vlatko even dislike Sandžakians. He said he doesn't recognized them as part of own ethnicity.

Nigga Bosniensis (from Bihać) is more pro-Ottoman than any Turkksh user here. He dislike modern Turkey because it's secular and gave up from Ottoman heritage according to him. On his avatar was often Omer paša Latas. Bosniensis worship Omer paša Latas because he destroyed Bosnian and Herzegovinian begovat in the name of holy sultan. :)

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Did this Vlatko tell you why he disliked us ?

Regarding Bosniensis, I think he is a bit trolling but in the end, until Erdogan came (early 2000s), between its creation and during Cold War period, the modern Turkish republic was built against the Ottoman-Islamic heritage, and was pretty isolationist and neglected its old Ottoman sphere of influence (Balkans, Caucasus, Levant, Central Asia) because also of geopolitical divide of Cold War (communist countries vs NATO-alliance countries which Turkey was member)

So from that perspective, we Balkan Muslims, can feel a certain nostalgia of Ottoman past (which is the starting point of our history-culture) and disdain for modern Turkish Republic, up until Erdogan's leadership that restored Neo-Ottoman foreign policies (economical, trade, business, diplomatical, cultural, religious partnerships between Turkey and former Ottoman regions, in order to strengthen ties in both sides)

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Originally Posted by Varda

I know, he was in Austrian military service before escaped to Bosnia and converted on islam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omer_Pasha#Early_life
Many Bosniaks hate Omer paša Latas, but Bosniensis worship him. xD

I know one Serb from Plaški with surname Latas.

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He was very capable, one of best careers ever for a foreign muslim in Ottoman Empire. After conversion to Islam, he came to hill above Janja Gora to watch his village many times, but never returned home.
I know that because my ex father is from Janja Gora.

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Originally Posted by RogueState

Did this Vlatko tell you why he disliked us ?

Regarding Bosniensis, I think he is a bit trolling but in the end, until Erdogan came (early 2000s), between its creation and during Cold War period, the modern Turkish republic was built against the Ottoman-Islamic heritage, and was pretty isolationist and neglected its old Ottoman sphere of influence (Balkans, Caucasus, Levant, Central Asia) because also of geopolitical divide of Cold War (communist countries vs NATO-alliance countries which Turkey was member)

So from that perspective, we Balkan Muslims, can feel a certain nostalgia of Ottoman past (which is the starting point of our history-culture) and disdain for modern Turkish Republic, up until Erdogan's leadership that restored Neo-Ottoman foreign policies (economical, trade, business, diplomatical, cultural, religious partnerships between Turkey and former Ottoman regions, in order to strengthen ties in both sides)

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He said that Sandžakians are alien for him culturally and by mentality, and doesn't recognized them as own ethnicity. He had a conflict with other Bosniak user because of that and his anti-Turkish attitudes.

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Originally Posted by Stearsolina

He was very capable, one of best careers ever for a foreign muslim in Ottoman Empire. After conversion to Islam, he came to hill above Janja Gora to watch his village many times, but never returned home.
I know that because my ex father is from Janja Gora.

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Omer paša was probably I2-S17250*
Several Serbian families from Lika with rare slava Sv. Vrači carry this haplo (Sv. Vrači is slava of Latas family). We will see in the future.

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Originally Posted by Varda

He said that Sandžakians are alien for him culturally and by mentality, and doesn't recognized them as own ethnicity. He had a conflict with other Bosniak user because of that and his anti-Turkish attitudes.

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It's true that there are mentality differences, we are more "tribal" (helping each other family), have a "honor" and "macho-patriarchal" mentality (this comes from our Montenegrin-Albanian background, from principles of Cojstvo i Junastvo, or Albanian "Besa"), more socially conservative regarding women, more religious; compared to Bosnia_Bosniaks who are for us more naive, dumb, weak, being submitted to their women.

https://youtu.be/Ny9UMqoc2fk?t=222
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTOaPnPauxc

But these are general stereotypes, not all of us are like that nor all Bosnia_Bosniaks are like that

This type of mentality differences is often found among tribal highlanders people all around the world, it's a general anthropological feature

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Originally Posted by RogueState

It's true that there are mentality differences, we are more "tribal" (helping each other family), have a "honor" and "macho-patriarchal" mentality (this comes from our Montenegrin-Albanian background, from principles of Cojstvo i Junastvo, or Albanian "Besa"), more socially conservative regarding women, more religious; compared to Bosnia_Bosniaks who are for us more naive, dumb, weak, being submitted to their women.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTOaPnPauxc

But these are general stereotypes, not all of us are like that nor all Bosnia_Bosniaks are like that

This type of mentality differences is often found among tribal highlanders people all around the world, it's a general anthropological feature

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That is Elvedin Pezić lool

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Originally Posted by Varda

That is Elvedin Pezić lool

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Sounds familiar to certain people here :D

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Originally Posted by Stearsolina

He was very capable, one of best careers ever for a foreign muslim in Ottoman Empire. After conversion to Islam, he came to hill above Janja Gora to watch his village many times, but never returned home.
I know that because my ex father is from Janja Gora.

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Maybe Omer paša can be consider for Bosniak, regardless Bosniak nation is created in 1990s. Every Serb, Croatian or Montenegrin who took islam becomes Bosniak, because Bosniak is umbrella for "Serbo-Croatian" speaking muslim. xD

Mehmed paša Sokolović is born as a Orthodox Serb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokoll...asha#Biography
Bosniaks consider him for Bosniak.

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Originally Posted by Varda

Maybe Omer paša can be consider for Bosniak, regardless Bosniak nation is created in 1990s. Every Serb, Croatian or Montenegrin who took islam becomes Bosniak, because Bosniak is umbrella for "Serbo-Croatian" speaking muslim. xD

Mehmed paša Sokolović is born as a Orthodox Serb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokoll...asha#Biography
Bosniaks consider him for Bosniak.

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What happens to those who come/return to Christ? Serbian Orthodox churches are not welcoming to ex-Muslims and Catholics?

Bosniak Moldovan friendship :cool:

Moldova's best known poet's surname was Eminović, pure Bosniak last name.

there is a village called Bosanci (Bosanč) in Moldova region, which means 'Bosniaks'. maybe 19th century colonists, who knows.