Of course is european.
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Of course is european.
People who have lots of it usually say that.Quote:
Originally Posted by the nihilist
Yes it is European.
To put things into perspective East Eurasians have more neanderthal than West Eurasians.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure ja
Perhaps, but that was not the issue here :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurinko
The issue was slapping a mong sign to anything and everything.
Lol....good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Delarge
If West Asian is a European component, than so is N. African and SSA, and any other asian component for that matter, period.
West Asian is not a European component but you still can't compare N. Africa, SSA and East Asian components and put them on the same level with West Asian.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaita
If West Asian is not European component, you guys better redraw Europe map by removing Italy, Greece and many more neighbors..they all got 20+ % West Asian component.Quote:
Originally Posted by orangepulp
23andme results intentionally redefine West Asian component according to the need to make sure all southern/sothern-east Europeans score verr high Euro percent.
Greece is 50% West Asian so are South Italians:Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthAsian
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...rive_web#gid=5
Reality is they are not 100% European. If West Asian is a European component then Turks, Armenians, Georgians, Persians would all be European.
Quote:
Originally Posted by orangepulp
50% is for small minority of Greeks/Italians and person can't look European if WA genes exceeds certain limit like 35% (assume).
Striking out Greeks and Italians is a shameful act since they are kind of founding fathers of Europe..
West Asian component exceeds 50% on average in Turks, Armenians, Georgians, Persians, so majority wont look Euro..
Some minorities of aforementioned groups could look Euro if WA component is not much..
xDQuote:
Originally Posted by orangepulp
Georgians and Iranians score 90% west asian, South Italians score 50% and Germanic/Slavic core groups score 20%. The gap is obvious.
West asian admixture originates in west asia therefore it is non "European", the elevated concetration of west Asian admixture in SE Europe is mostly due to immigration from the eastern mediterranean within the last 2000/3000 years but also due to the neolithic expansion of farmers.
Shameful act!! This is the reality, go look at the spreadsheet I posted.Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthAsian
West Asian added together is the Caucasus, Southwest Asian and Gedrosia components. Caucasus component is the highest none European component Greeks have with 37.4%.
Greeks do have West Asian ancestry hence why there is phenotypical overlap between Greeks and other West Asians.
50% is a significant percentage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Capelli
I didn't see your spreadsheet but I am pretty sure which one you are referring.Quote:
Originally Posted by orangepulp
I meant shameful act in the sense that even if Greeks/Italians are genetically quite different , they will remain Europeans because they are the founding fathers of Europe..
37.4% or any percent is obvious among Greeks and pretty much no one will decline that Greeks/Italians got West Asian genes.
We may consider limit in the percent of West-Asian gene as criteria to consider who is European..
we can't abruptly say whoever with visisble West Asian is not European,
1/3 of Europeans won't be EUropean if we do so.
Why do you think that Caucasus is non-European one when it is neither non-European nor European?Quote:
Originally Posted by orangepulp
Spreadsheet:Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthAsian
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...rive_web#gid=5
I didn't deny Greeks European identity. I was talking in the genetic sense that Greeks are 50% none Europeans according to Dodecad K12b. The objective of this thread was not to put Greeks on the spot light but to prove West Asian is not a European component. Some people were classifying West Asian as European due to its abundance in Southern Europe. Just because West Asian is significant in Southern European populations it doesn't make it a European component.
Well, you guys aren't up-to-date: there was a huge revolution 3 days ago in Eurasian population genetics. According to the last paper on ancient genomes from Europe, West Asian is definitely non-European. It's also lacking in North Africa (Egypt excluded) and East Africa, which means it came very recently in the Near East (and Europe) after the Neolithic expansions. The West Asian component is often close to the North European because it has non-West Eurasian admixture in it too (Ancient North Eurasian) and maybe some other minor stuff too.
Finally, there is no component specific to Europe today, except maybe some Mesolithic Hunter Gatherers who also were purely West Eurasian (Lochsbour). The rest is non-West Eurasian (ANE like the Mal'ta boy, Ancient North Eurasian which also contributed to West Asians and Native Americans) and Early Europan Farmers (who were a West Eurasian/Basal Eurasian hybrid, like Neolithic Stuttgart).
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-YbYK8NzQNA...1600/model.png
I have mastered that sheet already,Quote:
Originally Posted by orangepulp
it says North-western Indians are about 25% European :lol: :crazy::bullet puke:wavey001::zzz:clap:
:jump0000::bump2:
=> disregard that sheet
Because Caucasus ( sometimes referred to as West Asian) populations are not genetically close to Europeans if you check the PCA plots:Quote:
Originally Posted by Solin
http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/619...ulpfull201.png
http://imageshack.com/a/img819/2953/toga.png
In Southern Italy the West Asian component is very strong, almost as like in Greece.
West Asian is not an European component, for me.
Else why we call it that ("West Asian") ?
As usual more non-sense from you. Caucasus is not the same as West Asian when it comes to components at least on Dodecad. Both are close to European ones, but two of them are not the same. Caucasus is a completely artificial component. It is a mix of "Southern" and West Asian if I am not mistaken. You posted K12b Dodeacd spreadsheet without posting K7b one because K12b and K7b calculators are interchangable in a sense that what you get on K7b will help you to interprete your K12b results.Quote:
Originally Posted by orangepulp
For example
Oetzi has ~20% Caucasus on K12b and ~0% West Asian on K7b. Since the
Caucasus component is West Asian + Southern, this means that his
"Caucasus" admixture is due to the "Southern" and not to the "West
Asian" part meaning that Greeks would be less than 50% "non-European" judging by your spreadsheet, but probably not that much less.
Western Asian component is caucasus+gedrosia if im not mistaken.Quote:
Originally Posted by Solin
People, you should forget all these old components: ancient DNA made them obsolete just before Christmas.
anyway If someone is into a movie I can recommend you this one :laugh:. Just saw it and it was awesome.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA10RDU9quU
It is the same sometimes they name the component West Asia sometimes they name it Caucasus. You will never see Caucasus and West Asia used as a term the same time on a calculator. Caucasus/ West Asian peaks in Georgians and Georgians are one of the closest to the pure form of West Asians. They have less admixture than Armenians and Turks for instance. Check Eurogenes K13 spreadsheet the West Asian component in Georgians:Quote:
Originally Posted by Solin
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9o3...YmM/edit?pli=1
Depends on the calculator. On k12b Gedrosia itself is already a component which means the Caucasus component here does not contain Gedrosia.Quote:
Originally Posted by gregorius
These are my k12b results, by the way:
Caucasus: 51.2%
Gedrosia: 17%
Atlantic_Med: 10.5%
Southwest_Asian: 9.2%
North_European: 6.3%
Siberian: 2.9%
East_Asian: 2.9%
Northwest_African: 0%
Southeast_Asian: 0%
South_Asian: 0%
East_African: 0%
Sub_Saharan: 0%
If you add your caucasus and gedrosia you;; have your west asian component.Quote:
Originally Posted by orangepulp
I have explained to you that they are not the same even if they are not used in the same calc simultaneously nor how could they because I explained it very nicely using Oetzi example.Quote:
Originally Posted by orangepulp
Edit: Eurogenes is a different thing since Caucasus on Eurogenes is not the same as Caucasus on Dodeacad.
no , asia is not in europe
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregorius
Caucasus+ Gedrosia+ Southwest Asian. In total I am 77.4% West Asian with k12b
I think the Caucasus in this calculator may contain some East med.
So what is Southern in k7b is the question then. It could be equal to East Med since it also significant in West Asian populations. Again may contain no Euro.Quote:
Originally Posted by Solin
Can you link me the site?Quote:
Originally Posted by chwarae
West Asia on V3 should be the right component to look at:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...COCa89AJ#gid=0
Of course, here is the link of the paper. (check the supplements).Quote:
Originally Posted by orangepulp
You can also read the about the study in Dienekes' blog, Eurogenes blog and For what they were we are blog.
Southern itself can be expresses only in terms of k12 components and vice versa. They are nothing by itself. Southern expressed in terms of k12b is a mix of AtlanticMed, SWA and minor Northwest African. But judging by Oetzi example it doesn't have to mean that someone has specific mixes. Id say that judging by K12b and K7b Greeks turn out to be 35-40% non-European and not 50%.Quote:
Originally Posted by orangepulp
And see my edited post btw.
It would be amazing if Polako could create a new calculator for these components from this new study but I don't know if that will ever happen or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by chwarae
Yeah, I agree with you. He needs the data though, which is going to take some time to get I guess. I'm sure it'll happen one day, and I'm personally most curious about how much of the new ancestry called "Basal Eurasian" I would get.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxman
I am quite curious about the ''Basal Eurasian'' ancestry as well. Seems like it could be Proto-Mediterranean or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by chwarae