Indigenous Balkan I2a1 in southern Albania

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Originally Posted by ToBeOrNotToBe

Read my previous comment on the distinction between S. Slavs and the original Slavs. I'm not arguing against Eupedia, I'm just saying Slavic tribal identity formed more or less in isolation of any real presence of I2a1, and so I2a1 cannot be considered a Slavic haplogroup - it's like considering R1a an Afghani haplogroup.

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And this is the problem you're having not understanding the subclades. We're not talking about all I2a1 which is at least 10, 000 years old and includes the early split of Sardinian M26, we're talking about the CTS10228 aka Dinaric subclade found in the Balkans, which is only about 2200 years old at the time the Slavs existed and started expanding afterwards.

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Originally Posted by Xhak Bauër

I'm not claiming that. But it's 5-10 times higher(around Korca) than it is among Ghegides. - Again, according to Eupediafail maps xD

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I think there is no chance that S Albania can have higher I2a then Macedonia. Especially not as it is displayed on map, that there is such a large area in S Albania that has more I2a then anywhere in Macedonia. Sounds like BS.

Look, the original Slavs would have contained some I2a1b, but not that much, and certainly nowhere near as much before they picked up a huge amount from the Slavic migrations into the Balkans.

Wherever you find high I2a1b-Din and R1a in the Balkans, the R1b-L23, J2b2, J2a and EV13 will be lower.

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Originally Posted by ToBeOrNotToBe

Look, the original Slavs would have contained some I2a1b, but not that much, and certainly nowhere near as much before they picked up a huge amount from the Slavic migrations into the Balkans.

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Founder effect, genetic drift.

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Originally Posted by ToBeOrNotToBe

Are you saying you don't believe Southern Slavs branched off from an earlier group of Slavs?

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Ofcourse they did. Like all other Slavic groups. Or you think proto-Slavs had tribal name like Russians ? :D

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Originally Posted by Xhak Bauër

Founder effect, genetic drift.

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So you think that most of the I2a1(b) in the Balkans came with the Slavic migrations, not despite it?

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Originally Posted by ToBeOrNotToBe

So you think that most of the I2a1(b) in the Balkans came with the Slavic migrations, not despite it?

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All of it did. Look at the recent previous posts of mine.

Bronze Age Montenegrin sample plots inside the Modern Albanian cluster, no I2a1b and R1a at play, since it would pull them way further northeast, not to mention the mtdna the Slavs brought to Balkans.

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Originally Posted by Philip Latinowitz

Ofcourse they did. Like all other Slavic groups. Or you think proto-Slavs had tribal name like Russians ? :D

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Lol obz not, but Russians (more specifically Belorussians) are a much better proxy for the original Slavs than, say, Bosnians.

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Originally Posted by safinator

This is the map i made with all the samples i had, more than 50.

I didn't tag names since it would have been a clusterfuck but as a general tendency southerners cluster more south and the most northern shifting as i said before are Albanians from Montegro.

Regarding the map, the most:

NORTHERN : Albanian from Kosovo
WESTERN: Albanian from Montenegro
EASTERN : Albanian from Macedonia
SOUTHERN: Albanian from the south

http://i.imgur.com/AtvElmW.png

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Ghegides and Toskides, quite a tight cluster regardless :D I am in the middle somewhere