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Originally Posted by
Loki
My sympathy is 100% with the Serbian people there. I don't even think it's necessary to explain why.
Kosovo je Srbija.
How is your sympathy towards these people ? This territory was originally inhabited by Illyrians: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dardani . There is no mention of these people in this territory for most of the history and there were Albanians that lived there too. After the collapse of the Roman Empire, these people settled in the Balkans and invaded the indigenous people. So explain how these people have historical rights to any of these lands ? They expelled Albanians from other areas and committed some crimes too which changed the demographics entirely into Albanian, such as this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expuls...%E2%80%931878) , today there are also Albanians still there that live under occupation such as in Presheva. So Albanians as an indigenous Balkan people have no right to self rule according to you ? But some Slavic tribe because they occupied these lands for a short period have the right to rule over another majority population ? Also what about Bosnia which was mostly Catholic yet today part of it has been taken by Orthodox Serbs, no sympathy there huh for the Muslims ex Catholics ? Or what about Vojvodina which they took from the Hungarians ? I also opened up some threads here about ethnic cleansing they did on Albanians and Muslims in what then became Serbia after Ottoman independence. https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...ms-from-Serbia
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Loki
You cannot compare Ukraine to Serbia. Serbia as a country has a long history, whereas Ukraine is a modern post-Soviet construct that never was intended to be an independent country.
Ukraine is a modern country, internationally recognized, that has been invaded. Kosovo isn't a part of Serbia and for most of it history was never part of Serbia but was occupied illegally during the Balkan wars 1912-1913 with an Albanian majority and it was Albanian territory, which I opened up a thread here about too: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...ten-by-a-Serb) . It is even written by a Serb. During the medieval period Kosovo was ruled by different empires:
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By the mid-seventh century, Serbs (or Serb-led Slavs) were penetrating from the coastal lands of Montenegro into northern Albania. Major ports and towns such as Durres and Shkodra held out against them, but much of the countryside was Slavicized, and some Slav settlers moved up the valleys into the Malesi. By the ninth century, Slav-speaking people were an important element of the population in much of northern Albania, excluding the towns and the higher mountainous areas (especially the mountains in the eastern part of the Malesi, towards Kosovo). [8] Slav-speaking people lived in the lowlands of this area, gradually becoming a major component of the urban population too, until the end of the Middle Ages. [19]
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Only in the ninth century do we see the expansion of a strong Slav (or quasi-Slav) power into this region. Under a series of ambitious rulers, the Bulgarians - a Slav population which absorbed, linguistically and culturally, its ruling elite of Turkic Bulgars - pushed westwards across modern Macedonia and eastern Serbia, until by the 850s they had taken over Kosovo and were pressing on the borders of Rascia. Soon afterwards they took the western Macedonian town of Ohrid; having recently converted to Christianity, the Bulgar rulers helped to set up a bishopric in Ohrid, which thus became an important centre of Slav culture for the whole region. And at the same time the Bulgarians were pushing on into southern and central Albania, which became thoroughly settled by Bulgarian Slavs during the course of the following century. [19]
Kosovo was to remain under Bulgarian or Macedonian rulers until 1014-18, when the army of the Macedonian-based Tsar Samuel died, his empire broke up, and Byzantine power was fully re-established by a strong and decisive Emperor, Basil 'the Bulgar-killer'. For nearly two centuries after that, Kosovo would stay under Byzantine rule. [20]
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The previous chapter brought the political history (if such it may be called) of Kosovo up to the final period of Bulgarian-Macedonian rule, before the territory of Tsar Samuel was reconquered by the Byzantine Emperor Basil the Bulgar-slayer. Medieval Kosovo is often referred to in general terms as 'the cradle of the Serbs', as if it had been a Serb heartland from the outset; but the reality was rather different. Just over 800 years separate the arrival of the Serbs in the Balkans in the seventh century from the final Ottoman conquest in the 1450s: out of those eight centuries, kosovo was Serb-ruled for only the last two-and-a-half - less that on-ethird of the entire period. Bulgarian khans or tsars held Kosovo from the 850s until the early eleventh century, and Byzantine Emperors until the final decades of the twelfth
https://macedonia.kroraina.com/en/nm/kosovo.html
If Serbia as a country has a long history as you say it certainly doesn't include that much the region of Kosova, Toplica-Presheva nor Macedonia. So it is ironic you support the invasion of Ukraine, while claiming an Albanian territory that these people illegally invaded, after 500 years of Ottoman rule, is supposed to be ''their integral territory''. How exactly does that work out ? There is no such thing as integral territory in this case, you're just making things up. Serbia didn't include most territories today for most of their history, it started with some territory in what is today Montenegro/Rashka/Sandzak area, only later did it start to expand into Macedonia, Kosovo, Serbia in the 12th-13th century.
When Serbia again gained Ottoman independence, Kosovo nor many other regions weren't part of Serbia , so care to explain what kind of integral territory we are talking about here ? As it seems to be some kind of made up integral territory.
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The first brief attempts at colonisation were made by Montenegro and Serbia during the Balkan Wars and First World War.[7][8] Following the end of the wars and the creation of Yugoslavia, the interwar period experienced the most colonisation activity. Between 60,000 and 65,000 colonists, of whom over 90% were Serbs, settled on the territory of the former Kosovo Vilayet captured from the Ottoman Empire in 1912.[9][10] In addition to them, numbers of state bureaucrats and their families also settled in Kosovo.[11] Along with Serb colonisation, a policy of forced migration of ethnic Albanians was implemented, enlisting the participation of Turkey to resettle them in its territory.[12][13][14]
During the Interwar period, tens of thousands of Albanians were killed in Kosovo, the Vardar province (modern-day North Macedonia), and Montenegro. Albanian armed resistance to Kosovo's incorporation into Yugoslavia following WWI emerged in the Kachak Movement, triggering a conflict that lasted until 1921 when the movement was suppressed. As a result, more than 12,000 Albanians were killed in Kosovo from 1918 to 1921.[15][16] In 1919, U.S. Army colonel Sherman Miles reported that between 18,000 and 25,000 Albanians had been killed in Montenegro, according to the British Mission in Shkodėr and as many as 30,000 according to Albanian estimates.[17][relevant?] In July 1919, the French consulate in Skopje (North Macedonia) reported nine massacres of 30,000-40,000 victims.[18][relevant?] According to Haki Demolli, 80,000 Albanians were killed in Yugoslavia by 1940.[19]
- Yugoslav colonization of Kosovo
None of these lands belong to these people, neither modern Kosova, nor Presheva, nor Macedonia. Because some medieval empires managed to invade them and hold them for a certain period doesn't make them now yours. Claims such as integral territory are nothing but made up. Kosova was also an autonomous province of Yugoslavia. In fact, only thanks to Roman occupation and later fall of the Roman Empire that these people even exist in the Balkans as it was entirely non-Slavic. There were no Slavs in the Balkans. So you definitely don't get to make the territorial claims here, but of course, you people, including this person you were conversing with suffer from some kind of delusion, I guess, that seem to have this deluded idea that these Slavs are supposed to be some kind of indigenous people of the Balkans whose lands have been stolen, no, it is the other way around, these people invaded the indigenous people here and most of their empires are short lived.