Eh, I found a Eurogenes online and it's dedicated to cows.
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Eh, I found a Eurogenes online and it's dedicated to cows.
Oh come on Karl ... I find his work to be unbiased and professional, he is doing some great research there with the sampling that he has. I'm pretty sure when he found the clusters he did not have you or your Estonian-Russian rivalry in mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl
That's weird, considering i have 0%Quote:
Originally Posted by Pallantides
You completely misunderstood me. He just has extremist views about European history, which are very different from the main theories. He uses his "genetic project" to prove his point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
I cannot find any logical explanation to putting Russians into the Estonian cluster. Maybe that's the reason, why his results look so odd, like the high Mediterranean % among "Estonians", while in reality, Estonians are one of the least Mediterranean people in Europe.
I stopped following his project a long time ago and I came to this thread, because Pallantides posted on my profile.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexDelarge
His results don't add up with professional researches.
To make it short, he is a biased amateur and taking everything (like Pallantides does) that his research says, as pure truth, isn't a good idea.
I forgot to post this map:Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexDelarge
http://www.eupedia.com/images/conten...-admixture.gif
As I said earlier, Polako's research is amateurish and gives very peculiar results that don't add up with professional genetic research.
I totally disagree, his research is infinitely more professional than your criticism thereof.Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl
There is a good reason why Estonians and Northeast Russians overlap or are close, and that is because NE Russia had a substantial Finnic substratum. Even you should know that.
So please stop polluting this thread with your infantile comments, and let the rest of us enjoy it. You're spamming it with nonsense and insults. :rolleyes2:
That map is also crap, because i also have 0% on Dodecad yet they show southern Portugal has having 2-5%. As far as i know i'm the only southern Portuguese person on Dodecad. That is mine and Kadu's assertion from the info we gathered about the portuguese sample.Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl
On the other hand, Dodecad doesn't provide regional data about his samples, so Eupedia clearly made that map up, since they are saying they based it on Dodecad's data.
On the Fennoscandia project the Estonians and North Russians overlap as well.
http://i.imgur.com/d6qGR.jpg
Please continue enjoying Eurogenes' dubious information which doesn't add up with professional research in many occasions, I won't stop anyone. I was just stating that there are some shortcomings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Of course I know that, for instance, the St. Petersburg region was still very Finnic in the early 20th century.Quote:
There is a good reason why Estonians and Northeast Russians overlap or are close, and that is because NE Russia had a substantial Finnic substratum. Even you should know that.
Anyway, how is this related to ethnic Russians being put into the Estonian group?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pallantides
Finnic or not, they have a substantial amount of Slavic admixture and belong into their own group.
WE12 individuals: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...aSk9zYkE#gid=0
Ethnic averages for WE12: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...W9MdlR1dm43Umc
As before, some selected populations and my results (sorted by Baltic):
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ogenesWE12.jpg
RU44
Sub-Saharan African 0.00%
Baltic 69.07%
Siberian 1.36%
Southwest Asian 3.60%
South Asian 1.77%
East African 0.00%
South Central Asian 0.00%
Southeast Asian 0.00%
Mediterranean 15.53%
East Asian 0.00%
Caucasian 2.16%
Western European 6.51%
Again, very Baltic. Again, elevated South Asian elements in individuals belonging to Erzya, Vologda Russians, etc.
Could you give links to the said professional research? As far as I know, it corresponds well to Rasmussen and Yunusbaev. In fact, it's probably better - for instance, many published articles cite Vologda Russians as simply Russian (thought they are very peculiar genetically), it is difficult to find any details of their work, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl
Additionally, while Estonians may be similar to Russians on a wider scale, they show up quite distinct on admixture runs. As you can see, their West Euro component is considerably larger than that of Russians (21-22% vs. 0-10% with a couple of outliers that reach 12-15%). The Med component is much higher in Russians (6-8% in Estonians, 8-25% in Russians). What's so unusual and anti-Estonian about this?
There are some wrong and wacky parts in all such researches (including professional), but on the overall I wouldn't call them unreliable - and you can often see what is wrong in particular (e.g. the Finns suddenly getting SW Asian in this run) by looking at the patterns.
In regards to the absurdly high Southwest Asian in Finns, maybe Finland got a visit from Arab merchants :D
North Atlantic 44.09%
North-Central European 38.2%
Baltic 15.13%
Southern European 1.85%
East Asian 0.7%
West African 0.00%
I have the second highest North Atlantic score after NO4 who is a West Norwegian, I also have the lowest 'Southern European' scoreQuote:
Originally Posted by Pallantides
NO3
North-Central European 81.12%
North Atlantic 8.14%
Baltic 6.77%
Southern European 3.89%
East Asian 0.06%
West African 0.00%
NO4
North Atlantic 48.57%
North-Central European 39.95%
Baltic 6.67%
Southern European 3.69%
East Asian 1.09%
West African 0.00%
NO5
North-Central European 48.09%
North Atlantic 39.76%
Baltic 8.04%
Southern European 3.86%
East Asian 0.23%
West African 0.00%
NO6
North-Central European 46.15%
North Atlantic 33.9%
Baltic 15.55%
Southern European 3.67%
East Asian 0.71%
West African 0.00%
NO7
North-Central European 43.7%
North Atlantic 30.66%
Baltic 19.81%
Southern European 4.5%
East Asian 1.3%
West African 0.00%
NO8
North-Central European 46.31
North Atlantic 36.65%
Baltic 13.36%
Southern European 2.65%
East Asian 1.01%
West African 0.00%
NO9
North-Central European 50.59%
North Atlantic 37.37%
Baltic 7.9%
Southern European 4.08%
East Asian 0.03%
West African 0.00%
NO10
North-Central European 49.58%
North Atlantic 29.04%
Baltic 18.12%
Southern European 3.13%
East Asian 0.11%
West African 0.00%
NO11
North-Central European 44.78%
North Atlantic 38.55%
Baltic 12.8%
Southern European 3.38%
East Asian 0.47%
West African 0.00%
This is what I scored for the K=10 (WE.10.Q):
3.4043% Southwest Asian
0.0509% Sub-Saharan African
0.001% South Asian
0.001% East African
0.001% North Asian
0.001% East Asian
7.1869% West Central Asian
29.4315% Baltic
53.2138% Western European
6.7084% Caucasus
Western European 46.5%
Baltic 44.24%
West Central Asian 8.11%
North Asian 1.08%
East Asian 0.04%
Southwest Asian 0.00%
Sub-Saharan African 0.00%
South Asian 0.00%
East African 0.00%
Caucasus 0.00%
-------------------------------------------
Western European - ES, BAS, French-Basque, FR, Cornwall, UK
Baltic - LIT, RU, BY, Vologda-Russian,
West Central Asian - Balochi, Makrani, Brahui
North Asian - Nganassan, Evenk, Yukagir, Dolgan, Yakut
Could this explain the North Asian scores of some South Norwegians?Quote:
In recent years, several archaeological finds indicate a Sami presence in Southern Norway in the Middle Ages, and Southern Sweden, including finds in Lesja, in Vang in Valdres and in Hol and Ål in Hallingdal. Proponents of the Sami interpretations of these finds assume a mixed population of Norse and Sami people in the mountainous areas of Southern Norway in the Middle Ages.
NO2 - 1.08%
NO3 - 1.29%
NO5 -1.15%
NO7 - 1.94%
NO8 - 1.24%
Also NO4 who is from Western Norway is 1.04% East Asian.
'North Asian' and 'East Asian' is pretty much absent in the Danish participants.
Baltic 0.516044
Western European 0.26675
Southwest Asian 0.093097
West Central Asian 0.067959
Caucasus 0.055166
North Asian 0.000944
Sub-Saharan African 0.00001
South Asian 0.00001
East African 0.00001
East Asian 0.00001
56.13% Western European
31.84% Baltic
10.46% West Central Asian
01.57% Southwest Asian
00.00% Sub-Saharan African
00.00% South Asian
00.00% East African
00.00% North Asian
00.00% East Asian
00.00% Caucasus
K=10 From highest to low:
Caucasus: 54.96%
Southwest Asian: 19.41%
West central Asian: 9.08%
West European: 8.21%
North Asian: 3.74%
Baltic: 2.58%
East Asian: 1.63%
Sub-Saharan African: 0.00%
East African: 0.00%
South Asian: 0.00%
Sub-Saharan 1.9%
Baltic 1.9%
Siberian 1.536%
SouthWest Asian 26.1468%
South Asian 2.288%
East African 1.4397%
South Central Asian 9.5171%
South East Asian 0%
Med 17.1384%
East Asian 0.2481%
Caucasian 37.33763%
Western European 0
According to West Eurasian K=12 Jews have no SW Asian but instead some South-Central Asian and are predominantely Med.
I smell a fuck up:rolleyes2:
What are you talking about, the Jews do have Southwest Asian...
http://i.imgur.com/1xAm7.jpg
ops sorry that was K=10
That's K=10 where this SW Asian is basically a mix of true SW one with Med. Now check out the link to K=12 study Humanophage has provided:Quote:
Originally Posted by Pallantides
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...1dm43Umc#gid=2
Yeah I just realised, I mixed them up sorry.
47.46 Western European
28.90 Baltic
08.15 West Central Asian
06.94 Southwest Asian
04.72 Caucasus
02.22 Sub-Saharan African
01.59 East Asian
00.01 South Asian
00.00 East African
00.00 North Asian
Ethnic averages for WE.10.Q: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...zdpWDhmbVlMTmc
RU44
Baltic 75.62%
Caucasus 7.56%
Southwest Asian 6.57%
Western European 6.54%
South Asian 2.07%
North Asian 1.33%
West Central Asian 0.30%
East African 0.00%
East Asian 0.00%
Sub-Saharan African 0.00%
My giant Baltic (the 40th highest in the project of 2069 people) soaks up all my Western European, it seems, but some remains still:
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...nDiversity.jpg
I also have the 3rd lowest Mongoloid (North + East Asian) among the 44 Russians.
From the pics of yours I've seen this corresponds well with your phenotype IMOQuote:
Originally Posted by Humanophage
K=11
Western European 46.42%
Baltic 44.23%
West Central Asian 8.13%
North Asian 1.03%
Southeast Asian 0.16%
East Asian 0.00%
South Asian 0.00%
Sub-Saharan 0.00%
Caucasus 0.00%
Southwest Asian 0.00%
East African 0.00%
Not so different from my K=10 results.
ADMIXTURE analysis of West Eurasia - K=12 run
My K=12 results:
Me, Average Turk, Average Armenian
Caucasus: 49.27% 38.01% 48.73%
Mediterranean: 22.74% 25.32% 25.47%
Southwest Asian: 9.41% 9.82% 12.61%
Westcentral Asian: 7.77% 9.73% 10.94%
North Atlantic: 3.77% 3.66% 0.89%
East Asian: 3.06% 2.07% 0.04%
North Asian: 2.29% 3.38% 0.01%
Baltic: 1.59% 6.11% 1.08%
East African: 0.03% 0.21% 0.02%
Sub-Sahran: 0.00% 0.22% 0.00%
South Asian: 0.00% 0.92% 0.19%
Southeast Asian: 0.00% 0.55% 0.02%
My K=12:
43.87 North Atlantic
32.54 Mediterranean
12.80 Baltic
4.99 West Central Asian
2.05 Sub-Saharan
1.73 Caucasus
1.67 Southeast Asian
0.34 East African
0.00 East Asian
0.00 South Asian
0.00 North Asian
0.00 Southwest Asian
According to this new run Ashkenazis are European genetically. At least on par with Italians and Greeks.
Religious Jews regard Israel as their homeland. They don't consider themselves of European origin. And I think some Jews would laugh at you for making the assertion that they are European.Quote:
Originally Posted by Padre Organtino
Nah, I was making a comment purely on genetics. How they see themselves is of course a totally different matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. van Winkle
BTW Caucasus seems to be a true genetic isolate. Especially the Northern one.
UK19
67.36% North Atlantic
24.37% Mediterranean
03.75% Baltic
02.26% Southwest Asian
02.25% West Central Asian
00.00% Caucasus
00.00% Southeast Asian
00.00% East African
00.00% East Asian
00.00% South Asian
00.00% North Asian
00.00% Sub-Saharan
Baltic: 37.02%
Mediterranean: 30.97%
Caucasian: 14.81%
North Atlantic: 09.86%
East Asian: 01.44%
Southwest Asian: 00.43%
West Central Asian: 00.09%
North Asian: 00.05%
North Atlantic 66.52%
Mediterranean 15.32%
Baltic 14.98%
Caucasus 1.84%
North Asian 0.71%
Southeast Asian 0.6%
Southwest Asian 0.00%
West Central Asian 0.00%
East African 0.00%
South Asian 0.00%
Sub-Saharan 0.00%
East Asian 0.00%
WOW, what is your ancestry?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dušan
<double post>
Ethnic averages for WE.12.Q: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...183WUNJZm5NdHc
RU44 (compared to average Russian)
Baltic 74.94% (4.77%)
Mediterranean 10.92% (-0.34%)
North Atlantic 5.22% (-1.14%)
Caucasus 3.83% (0.08%)
South Asian 2.02% (1.48%)
Southwest Asian 1.60% (-0.05%)
North Asian 0.96% (-2.07%)
West Central Asian 0.39% (-1.98%)
East Asian 0.12% (-0.45%)
Sub-Saharan 0.00% (0%)
East African 0.00% (0%)
Southeast Asian 0.00% (-0.29%)
Why according to the new run? They've been like that on all runs and maps. Like this: http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/5977/weunov011.pngQuote:
Originally Posted by Padre Organtino
Say, on Dodecad Ashkenazi have a slightly higher Southwest Asian than Greeks and a slightly lower North European, same as here. Ashkenazi also have a considerably higher Southwest Asian than any Italians.
NO2+(Norwegian average)
North Atlantic 66.52% (63.82%)
Mediterranean 15.32% (16.62%)
Baltic 14.98% (14.41%)
Caucasus 1.84% (1.36%)
North Asian 0.71%(0.75%)
Southeast Asian 0.6%(0.15%)
Southwest Asian 0.00%(2.09%)
West Central Asian 0.00%(0.56%)
South Asian 0.00%(0.05%)
East Asian 0.00%(0.2%)
East African 0.00%(0.00%)
Sub-Saharan 0.00%(0.00%)