Gedmatch calculators on Vahaduo

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Originally Posted by Stearsolina

French always behaved differently than Germanics, in colonies they race mixed freely unlike English and Germans. They are not comparable.
German (or Slavic) concept of ethnicity was not like French or Hungarian.

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Myth vs reality.

Yerri Urban, L’Indigène dans le droit colonial français 1865-1955

This thesis, which proposes to study the history of nationality law specific to the colonized, who were then called "natives", constitutes a real contribution to the knowledge of the status of the native, a status at the heart of the process of colonial domination. But these are not its only contributions. It also teaches us a great deal, it seems to us, about the degree to which jurists adhered to the racial culture of the Third Republic; it also allows us to better understand the complexity of the relationship between “race” and the Republic, and to better measure the importance of racial logic within the theories and practices of the Third Republic.

The 'indigenous' legal category, which makes colonized populations not French 'citizens' but French 'subjects', falls squarely within the framework of colonial domination: the law does not make the native an equal of the French from mainland France or the French settled in the colonies, but it confers on him an inferior status. Olivier Beaud recalls in the introduction that this “status is amputated from the noblest part of political law: the right to citizenship”. The native, by not enjoying political rights[1], thus saw himself deprived of any participation in the management of the life of his city, that of his territory as well as that of the French Empire, which is well reflected in the very unrepublican denomination of “subject”.

Soil law was above all a means of Frenchifying populations of European origin. There was indeed in the construction of this colonial law a racial logic which opposed Europeans considered as belonging to the “white race” – the term was very present in the remarks of certain jurists – to other races. Of course, the greatly reduced possibility of naturalization for the natives is not synonymous with total exclusion, an hermetic barrier of color and civilization; but if the door was ajar, it was so only for a very small minority.

The study of naturalization decrees carried out by Yerri Urban indeed shows that there was a desire to limit access to French citizenship to a tiny minority of natives, and that this narrow door was above all motivated by the concern to maintain colonial domination. France sparingly granted citizenship status to a thin elite[4]; the colonial authorities had to rally the local elites to the colonial system and avoid turning them into rebels. etc, etc, etc.

https://www.histoire-politique.fr/in...endus&item=508

Stearsolina,

The French in America were badly outnumbered by the English, they had to rely more on Native allies (the English also had Native allies of course).

For example in this battle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Monongahela

French forces:
637 Indians
254 whites

English forces:
0 Indians
1300 whites

There were many battles like this, where united French-Indian forces had more Indians than whites.

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Originally Posted by Tomenable

(...) Beeskow woman has no German blood at all.

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What else shall define German blood if not the blood that the undisputed members of the German people do have?

The imagination of a Pole from Wielkopolska?

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Originally Posted by Tomenable

Stearsolina,
The French in America were badly outnumbered by the English, they had to rely more on Native allies (the English also had Native allies of course).

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In Canada, only 7798 French founders contributed to 90% of the gene pool of the current French-Canadian population.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21302269/

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Originally Posted by rothaer

What else shall define German blood if not the blood that the undisputed members of the German people do have?

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Early German DNA of course from the time when German kingdom/nation's history began (roughly).

I would tell you the same about Slavs - how can there be a Slav with 0% of Early Slavic admixture?

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Originally Posted by J.S.

In Canada, only 7798 French founders contributed to 90% of the gene pool of the current French-Canadian population.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21302269/

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This study counted a bit more founders - 8424 including 39 genealogically documented Natives among founders:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3680396/

But in terms of genetic ancestry they actually found on average 2.12% Native, so more than genealogy suggests.

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Originally Posted by Tomenable

(...) Inter-War Poland had civic nationalism.

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What a nonsense! Such fairy tales you can tell people that have no knowledge about interwar Poland. In March 1939 a lot of Germans (Polish citizens) fled over the border to Silesia, because the persecutions of ethnic Germans were so harsh. My grandmother (Polish citizen as well) also considered doing it, but eventually didn't.

An here another example contradicting your fantasies about Polish civic nationalism (and appreciation of Jews):

"The deported Jews were rejected by Poland and therefore had to live in makeshift encampments along the Germany–Poland border."

They were all Polish citizens.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1938_e...s_from_Germany

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Originally Posted by rothaer

In March 1939 a lot of Germans (Polish citizens) fled over the border to Silesia, because the persecutions of ethnic Germans were so harsh.

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I'm having Déjà Vu now because I discussed about this (and many other similar topics) years ago with Michael Mills, Jan-Hendrik, and other German apologists & David Irving's friends on Axis History Forum. Maybe you can register there and join the debate there.

Generally Polish Counter-Intelligence was carrying out actions aimed at disrupting the network of German spies and Fifth Column in Poland.

Feel free to discuss it on AHF.

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OK here are some quotations from "Battle of Mlawa 1939" by Ryszard Juszkiewicz:

"[...] Germans were disappointed because they calculated that because of the propaganda thousands of men would escape, in this way weakening the strength of the Polish Army. Attempt failed. Due to the Sentence of the Regional Court in Mława for an attempt of organizing illegal overruns of the border in 1939 the following people were sentenced: Emma Bergeisten, Rudolf and Marta Weissens, Reingold Elgert, Alfred and Freda Scheins and Franciszek and Józef Szpejewskis.

If there were any escapes to the Reich, they were only carried out by German colonists living in the Northern Mazovia. For example from Iłów - to avoid recruitment to the Polish Army - two sons of Wilhelm Sowa, two members of Prejs family and two Radzanowski brothers escaped to Prussia. Escapes of Poles from the border poviats of this region were not recorded. [...]"

Another one:

"[...] Characteristic phenomenon for the last period before the war were numerous illegal migrations of young people in recruiting age on both sides of the border. In the mławski poviat many people in beggar clothes appeared. On the other hand young Germans were escaping from Poland to avoid being enlisted to the Polish Army or to avoid detentions in case if they were members of spy networks or V Column. Due to these facts on 30.04.1939 Polish authorities issued the "Law about Special Criminal Liability In Case of Illegal Escapes to the Enemy or Outside the Borders of the State". On the basis of this law Polish courts punished many ethnic Germans. But it did not prevent all escapes. In August of 1939 many young Germans appeared along the border. Captured by Polish Border Guard or Police, they were explaining that they were escaping from the upcoming war, that they hated Hitler, that they were good Catholics persecuted by German authorities. Polish security authorities usually interpreted reasons of these escapes correctly - that is, contraband of saboteurs to the Polish territory. But many circles - including the local press and Catholic clergy - assumed that stories about massive escapes from religious reasons were true, they were cheated and treated exodus of "refugees" as preview of soon crisis in godless Germany. Indeed, there were also such persons, who were really escaping from the Nazi terror, but it was several years before the beginning of the war. For example in 1936 a German soldier with full equipment escaped from the garrison in Olsztyn to Poland - his name was Heinz Keller. [...]"

Another one:

"[...] Another mean, which was to cause atmosphere of uncertainty and disorganize the political live, were messages spread by the German secret service, saying that peasants should not work in their fields, because it is a vain effort in the face of war. German agents were gathering and buying Polish coins. Limited amount of coins in circulations was causing among some people willingness to tesaurisate silver and nickel coins as these - according to spread gossips - would retain their value during the war.

Also behaviour of Germans living in Poland changed. They became even more arrogant and provocative. Local press was saying about numerous indictments to the Polish courts from Polish civilians, about insults and abuses of impudent Germans - informed about imminent war - towards ethnic Poles. [...]"

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Germans were also escaping to avoid conscription into the Polish Army, as Poland's citizens.

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OK this part is about Silesia:

"[...] Freikorps der Gewerkschaft Deutscher Arbeiter was created in May of 1939 at the initiative of Rudolf Wiesner, director of national Jungdeutsche Partei in Silesia.

There were also such "V column" organizations like:

Kampforganisation (their task was to protect important objects like bridges, roads, tunnels, railways, etc.)
Sabotageorganisation (their task was to destroy important objects behind the Polish lines to isolate the second stage and reserves of the Polish Army)
Fallschirmorganisation (saboteurs from this organization were carrying out air landings behind the Polish lines - they were very active for example in the operational area of Polish Southern Grouping of the "Prusy" Army)

There were also "V column" units called Betriebeschutz and Industrieschutz - they were ordered to protect Polish factories, mines and foundries from being destroyed by withdrawing Polish Army.

Abwehra also had its agents in the Polish Army - these units were called Regiments-Organisationen.

Both Kampf-, Sabotage- and Fallschirmorganisations had got 4,474 members in Silesian Voivodeship alone in July of 1939.

In August of 1939 there were 1,140 German saboteurs in front of the positions of German 5. Panzer-Division alone.

On 15.08.1939 Polish counterintelligence started to liquidate the German sabotage network in Silesia (which had been already "cracked" since quite a long time, but until 15.08.1939 Polish services only observed German sabotage preparations), at the end of August another wave of custodies (this time a top-secret wave) took place - as a result the majority of German saboteurs in Silesia spent the beginning of war in prisons or escaped to Germany - unfortunately the results of Polish actions were not 100% efficient and still many German saboteurs were active on 01.09.1939.

Moreover, German propaganda was trying to talk the world into believing that Poles were arresting "innocent ethnic Germans", not members of sabotage network (mainly local ethnic Germans, but also "visitors" from Germany) which was cooperating with the German Abwehra. That's why for example after the first wave of liquidation of the German sabotage in Silesia which started on 15.08.1939, Western Allies - especcialy as always pro-German England - protested and demanded to release arrested persons - many of them came back to sabotage organizations (that's why the second wave of custodies in late August was a top-secret operation).

Probably the biggest achievement of the German "V Column" in Silesia before the war was achieved by the K-Organisation unit of the section Rybnik - Pszczyna under command of Kurt Unger (local ethnic German) in cooperation with the Regiments-Organisation in Polish 55. Infantry Division:

"Als Beispiel fur die Unterhohlung der polnischen Wehrmacht fuhren wir noch an, dass Reserveoffizier Walter Wollny aus Rybnik als Fuhrer einer ganzen Kompanie mit 3 MG, 3 Munitionwagen und seiner Kompanie sich gegen den polnischen Fend wandte und sich dann dem deutschen Militar stellte. Zu unseren grossen Freude war es uns vergonnt, mit den deutschen Truppen mit einzumarschieren." - fragment of a document quoted by A. Szefer in "Subversive - sabotage activity of Breslau Abwehra in Polish territories on the eve of the Hitler's aggression in 1939", page 348.

This Polish company was the National Defense Company "Rybnik".

And probably the biggest "success" of over 1,000 men-strong K-Organisation Pless Abschnitt Pless-Rybnik during the battle for Silesia was:

"Sicherung und Instandsetzung der Strasse nordl. Rydultau" [...]"

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German spies/agents even tried to mobilize to the Germany Army ethnic German Polish citizens from borderland areas, quote:

"Polish citizens of German origin living in the area of Northern Mazovia were secretly delivered German mobilizational cards with time limit of showing up on 5 - 6 September in Bydgoszcz (Bromberg), Toruń (Thorn) or Grudziądz (Graudenz). Apparently German authorities anticipated that until that time these Polish cities would already be captured by the invading German army. [...]"

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Originally Posted by Tomenable

"Battle of Mlawa 1939"

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We have river with the same name. :)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mlava

As long as Pilsudski lived it was civic nationalism - and then, still civic nationalism but with stronger pressure on Polonisation.