Gedmatch calculators on Vahaduo

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Originally Posted by Tomenable

This study counted a bit more founders - 8424 including 39 genealogically documented Natives among founders:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3680396/
But in terms of genetic ancestry they actually found on average 2.12% Native, so more than genealogy suggests.

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The French Canadian founder population: lessons and insights for genetic epidemiological research

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A study based on genealogical information reports that about 89% of Quebec’s gene pool comes from French founders and almost 81% is derived from the French founders who arrived in the 17th century (Vézina et al. 2005b). French Canadians contributed to the growth of another population; between 600 000 and 800 000 French Canadians left Quebec for USA in 1840-1930 (Charbonneau 1973).
Note that we described the settlement of French people in Nouvelle France paying little attention to Aboriginal peoples who had already established themselves about 8 000 years ago in many regions (Frenette 1996; Desjardins et al. 1999). Although their influence has also shaped French Canadian history their genetic contribution to the population remained very small according to the latest studies (around 1%) (Vézina et al. 2012; Moreau et al. 2013).

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page 23

https://papyrus.bib.umontreal.ca/xml...=2&isAllowed=y

Moreau & al 2013 is the one you quoted. Anyway, it doe not make a big difference.

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Originally Posted by Tomenable

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I understand that my 30 yo Baptist grandma in Lodz likely was a spy or a fifth column that had to be persecuted.

What about the quoted 17,000 Jews (Polish citizens)?

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Originally Posted by Dušan

We have river with the same name. :)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mlava

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I bet you had more battles at your Mlava. :)

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Originally Posted by Tomenable

Early German DNA of course from the time when German kingdom/nation's history began (roughly).(…)

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Pretty squint. What is then English, French, Hungarian and Bulgarian blood?
Would be something that the English, French, Hungarians and Bulgarians respectively just have in minority then.

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Originally Posted by rothaer

Pretty squint. What is then English, French, Hungarian and Bulgarian blood?
Would be something that the English, French, Hungarians and Bulgarians respectively just have in minority then.

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French is Gaulish/Celtic (and this is what they officially claim at least since the Revolution, and they are right - also the fact that the French claim that their nation is based mainly on Gallic blood means that Stearsolina was wrong when saying that the French do not care about blood connections).

Bulgarian is Early Slavic (Slavic tribes settled the region before nomadic invaders came, and Bulgarian language is Slavic)

English - Anglo-Saxons (they see Normans as occupiers, not as ancestors)

Hungarian - no idea, these are truly mongrels. Very likely even early Magyar Conquerors were already mongrels when they came.

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Originally Posted by Tomenable

French is Gaulish/Celtic (and this is what they officially claim at least since the Revolution, and they are right - also the fact that the French claim that their nation is based mainly on Gallic blood means that Stearsolina was wrong when saying that the French do not care about blood connections).

Bulgarian is Early Slavic (Slavic tribes settled the region before nomadic invaders came, and Bulgarian language is Slavic)

English - Anglo-Saxons (they see Normans as occupiers, not as ancestors)

Hungarian - no idea, these are truly mongrels. Very likely even early Magyar Conquerors were already mongrels when they came.

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You both have a point. Yes, it was Germanics that founded the German nation (hence the name and the language) but now all ethnic Germans with German family trees are equally German. Slavs, Celts, possibly even Romans were assimilated hundreds or in some cases thousands of years ago. And most modern people would not be some kind of genetic outliers, let's not forget a large and growing number of people do not come from small towns and villages.
The Dutch do seem to be more "deutschblütig" in the original sense than many BRD Germans are, which is interesting. Which German regions are the most similar to the Dutch? Low Saxony, East Frisia I would guess, perhaps NRW too. But the Dutch are more Western geographically, so that's understandable. The same reason why Poles are less mixed than Russians. Had we stayed west of Moscow, we would be almost Polaks. Oh well.

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Originally Posted by rothaer

I understand that my 30 yo Baptist grandma in Lodz likely was a spy or a fifth column that had to be persecuted.

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You wrote that she considered moving to Silesia but stayed. You did not claim that she was persecuted (any details about the alleged persecution)? Nazi radio used fear-mongering propaganda in its broadcast, spreading rumours that the Polish were planning to persecute Germans - and that's why many considered crossing the border. This is what historian Juszkiewicz claims.

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Originally Posted by rothaer

What about the quoted 17,000 Jews (Polish citizens)?

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Wikipedia article mentions that in the end they were allowed to enter Poland.

Why they were held in camps on the border for so long I don't know, maybe they were not considered loyal if they lived in Germany, or maybe there were suspected spies working for Abwehra etc. among them.

Probably they had to be checked before being allowed entrance.

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Originally Posted by Tomenable

This study counted a bit more founders - 8424 including 39 genealogically documented Natives among founders:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3680396/

But in terms of genetic ancestry they actually found on average 2.12% Native, so more than genealogy suggests.

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That is why there is a certain number of recessively inherited genetic disorders among people from Quebec not really present or as common among other populations, especially Saguenay town.

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Originally Posted by Dušan

It is surpisingly that one part of one same nation didnt mix with their countrymen from surrounding areas during centuries, and preserve such drastically different autosomal genetic.

Such drastically different autosomal genetic could be preserved between two ethnicities living next to each other, but hard among one same ethnicity.

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I have heard from a Pole who used to work in various regions and little towns across Germany that it is very characteristic for people from this country to mostly marry/get into relationship with people who they grew up with (as in with a next-door girl) usually from the same small town even if they move to a bigger city to study, find a new job. They just tend to return to their little homeland eventually to start a family. He told me it is one of the cultural differences between Poles and Germans, their very strong association with 'their land, little microregion'.

Also he told me that in some old German little towns people tend to look ... eerily similar to each other. As if 50% guys were the slight variation of the same guy despite them not being even cousins. :D But 50 kms from that place it will be a perceivably different look that gets 'repeated', people will be samey but a different kind of samey. I think it has something to do with the fact that there used to be hundreds of distinct political entities, independent duchies until very late in history.

I am also of opinion that it has something to do with people selecting mates that have a familiar look more often, with epigenetic factors and not so much with having a small genetic pool etc

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Originally Posted by Roy

I have heard from a Pole who used to work in various regions and little towns across Germany that is very characteristic for people from this country to mostly marry/get into relationship with people who they grew up with usually from the same small town even if they move to a bigger city to study, find a new job. They just tend to return to their little homeland eventually to start a family. He told me it is one of the cultural differences between Poles and Germans, their very strong association with 'their land, little microregion'.

Also he told me that in some old German little towns people tend to look ... eerily similar to each other. As if 50% guys were the slight variation of the same guy despite them not being even cousins. :D But 50 kms from that place it will be a perceivably different look that gets 'repeated', people will be samey but a different kind of samey. I think it has something to do with the fact that there used to be hundreds of distinct political entities, independent duchies until very late in history.

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An interesting statement. I never thought about if that could be applicable. But what to compare with, if you don't know anything else. :icon_ask: