Serbian Autosomal DNA

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Leto

You think Hungary is lighter than Croatia? I do think Hungary is darker than West Slavs.
By the way, Gedmatch isn't working properly at the moment, the oracles won't load. I found a Hungarian kit, will post it later.

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Yes, it's lighter. Hungary and Slovenia are quite similar in pigmentation, they are between Croatia/Bosnia and Czech Republic/Austria/Slovakia IMO.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pribislav

Are you forgot your troll thread about high amount of East Meds among Serbs?

Seya visited Belgrade this winter and she saw only few Meds there. She said that on other thread.

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OK, I apologize for trolling. East Med is def. rare, but it will pop put sooner among Serbs than Croats.
Thee are super rare East Med Croats though, like Mario Carević.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Braveheart

I'm not Dema and and there is an Albanian I know that match Macure on autosomal DNA. They came up as cousin.

That tribe was Albanian for sure. They match both in autosomal and paternally Albanians.


And no, it wasn't. All the evidence shows that Albanians originated North of the Jireck line where Latin influence was strong. Many Pre-Slavic tribes in Montenegro were Albanian in origin.





Plenty of mountain tribes that were recorded around there. Some of these tribes went extinct or were pushed out. As I have provided some evidence. Plenty of others of your tribes in Montenegro that were Albanian.

Duklija near Rashka was Albanian or Albanian-Vlach prior to Slavs according to historians



Even many tribes that survived and never fused into Slavs yet ironically you're telling some fairytale how Albanians came from Mat region, so you're telling me the Gruda area within Montenegro today came from Mat or the Hoti tribe or even Kelmendi ? Majority of them seem to of have no relation to the Mat region. What you're telling is just a fairytale.


We have presence of several early Albanian or Albanian-Vlach tribes in Montenegro and old Zeta, some of these seem to of fused into Serbs of course. Including Macure. There were others that were mix of Albanian-Slavic-Vlach.... The Balsic origin is disputed, but Crnojevic family were for sure partially Albanian.


There are no demographics of Northern Albania , that demographic included also Kosovo together and they certainly weren't a minority in Northern Albania. Those demographics aren't reliable as they also didn't count every mountain population whereas the Slavs largely settled in the lowlands.




Yeah, that area seem to of been quite Serbian according to D'Administrando :rolleyes:



You immigrated there in the 13th century, just like you immigrated into Albania and everywhere else then you pretty much lost that area by the 20th century that area was majority Albanian which you forcibly occupied. And claimed it as if it had been some Serbian homeland from the very start but it wasn't. What is so hard for you to understand about this exactly ?

Where is the native population that you claim ? Where are all your Y-DNA of Paleo-Balkan origin? Large chunk of them are pretty much related to Albanians. The only native population in Kosovo were some remnants of Arbanas (Albanians) and Vlachs, Bulgarians, Greeks, Jews and others that seemed to of been there before Serbs.

Albanians there were never settled for the most part by Ottomans.

As for your claim about NO Albanians being there before Ottomans in 17th century , Lets have a look:




Albanians mentioned in Kosovo under Stefan Dusan ^ . Yet you claimed there were NO Albanians there prior to the 17th century . This debunks everything you claim.

Who made up the majority there is irrelevant. I am strictly answering your claim. The Slavs that came there were immigrants. The native population were Albanians and Vlachs as also claimed by Hamp, Noel and many others.


Priot to Slavs, Kosovo was Albanian-Vlach mix. All the evidence sugggests this, that Kosovo, Northern Albania and Montenegro contained a Vlach-Albanian population. And that many of these people either were pushed out or fused into Slavs. And that they became a minority but after Ottoman occupation this reversed basically especially in Kosovo.


I know you keep beating around the bush and repeating yourself. You're people with identity crisis which is why you test so much DNA , you also claim Paleo-Balkan ancestors who were more or less like Albanians to fuel your own nationalism which is hilarious. Especially when everything shows you have immigrated into the Balkans pretty much and that the native people of the Balkans didn't automatically wanted to become Serbs as you portray, it happened through peer social pressure largely and occupation.

https://external-content.duckduckgo....png&f=1&nofb=1



I see it's a waste of time to have a normal debate with your kind because no matter all the evidence that is provided you still live in denial.

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Sockpuppet of IceT, tell me is God Albanian?

You spread fantasies here, Macure are I1-Z63. Since when this is Albo haplogroup?
Surnames Macura, Macurek, Macurski exist in Czechia, Poland and Ukraine. Macura surname is connected with Polish region Masuria (Mazury).

This map is wrong. White Serbia was never recorded there, only white Croatia.

https://external-content.duckduckgo....png&f=1&nofb=1

Only mention of northern Serbia as tribal state was in area where Sorbs live today, eastern Germany and western Czech Republic. Dervan was ruler of white Serbs.
And white Croats lived further east of them.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped.../ac/Dervan.png

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Est.1992

This map is wrong. White Serbia was never recorded there, only white Croatia.


Only mention of northern Serbia as tribal state was in area where Sorbs live today, eastern Germany and western Czech Republic. Dervan was ruler of white Serbs.
And white Croats lived further east of them.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped.../ac/Dervan.png

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Dušan is probably right when he said that part of Celto-Germanic admixture in Serbs came from White Serbia.

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Originally Posted by Braveheart

@Est.1992

It was located somewhere around there, even where they settled isn't exactly detailed but who really cares ? You missed the point. I also see I posted this in the wrong thread.




The tribe is not Slavic in origin, it was recorded as a non-Slavic tribe. Either Vlach or Albanian.

Several Albanians have tested for I1-z63 including almost every Kabashi I have seen, as I explained and as other people explained. Also a branch of Gashi I know have tested from the Drenica region. They are Albanians. I explained everything.

This haplogroup came with Germanic populations and fused into some Albanians that lived in Montenegro around 400-600 AD more or less, these tribes aren't mentioned until 1000 years later almost by that time when they had fused into Serbs they were Albanian people. Same way Kabashi and others are Albanians. A haplogroup doesn't make you a different ethnicity just because it's atypical among your population. An EV-13 Serb is still a Serb, same an I2a1b Albanian is still an Albanian.

Not sure what other fantasies I spread ?


Mataruge / Matranga were an Albanian tribe too or Albanian-Vlach . That surname is found in Arbereshe. Plenty of other tribes recorded in Montenegro too that seem to have an Albanian origin.


What has God anything to do with being Albanian and this topic ? Seems like you think everything is Serb and belongs to Serbs when you're pretty much an immigrant tribe into the Balkans that found some Albos and Vlachs and carry our DNA which is what makes everything even more screwed up.


I guess you're gonna tell me all other Serbian tribes that were said to be Albanian or Vlach weren't Albanian either. Even Beljopavlici or whatever their name was seem to of been Albanians.

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Surname Macura is most common in Serbia, Bosnia, Slovakia, Czechia and Poland https://forebears.io/surnames/macura

There is no Macura surname among Shiptars, deal with it!

I1-Z63 Shiptars are shiptarized, only real Shiptars by male line are R1b-BY611, J2b2-M241 and some E-V13.

We are not your genetic relatives, and we are not connected with you culturally, linguistically, and by religion, and leave us alone! Your genetic relatives are Aromanians and Epirote Greeks. Culturally and religious you the closest to Turks. Linguistically you not related with anyone, linguistic black sheeps or white ravens of Europe.

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Originally Posted by Est.1992

Not exactly, but admixed. There is Croatian admixture in western Serbs, for God's sake. Just like there is Romanian admixture in Szekely, or East Slavic admixture in Poles from Ukraine and Belarus.

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No, there is no Croatian admixture in western Serbs, there are no any proves for that. Todays Croatia was deep into Illyrian territory, and pre-Slavic component of Serbs from Croatia is not Illyrian, but clearly Thracian.

Good evidence is my mixed mode oracle.

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 93.4% Moldavian + 6.6% Sardinian @ 3.53
2 60.6% Ukrainian + 39.4% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.89
3 67.8% Ukrainian + 32.2% Central_Greek @ 4.09
4 54.1% Bulgarian + 45.9% Ukrainian @ 4.12
5 72.2% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 27.8% Sardinian @ 4.13
6 94.7% Moldavian + 5.3% Algerian_Jewish @ 4.16
7 71.1% Ukrainian + 28.9% South_Italian @ 4.17
8 90.6% Moldavian + 9.4% Greek_Thessaly @ 4.17
9 84.4% Moldavian + 15.6% Bulgarian @ 4.2
10 68.9% Ukrainian + 31.1% East_Sicilian @ 4.23
11 94% Moldavian + 6% Ashkenazi @ 4.24
12 62.8% Ukrainian_Lviv + 37.2% Greek_Thessaly @ 4.24
13 95.2% Moldavian + 4.8% Italian_Jewish @ 4.25
14 93.7% Moldavian + 6.3% Central_Greek @ 4.28
15 94% Moldavian + 6% East_Sicilian @ 4.28
16 94.6% Moldavian + 5.4% South_Italian @ 4.28
17 94% Moldavian + 6% West_Sicilian @ 4.29
18 96% Moldavian + 4% Cyprian @ 4.3
19 51.9% Bulgarian + 48.1% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 4.3
20 96% Moldavian + 4% Tunisian @ 4.3


This red component is not by origin from todays Croatia, but from central, south and east Balkan = THRACIAN.

Ofcourse there is, troll, you must be mentally sick to deny that. Admixture is measured IBD sharing and not gedmach. Personally you look 0% Croatian (and genetically) to me but your lone example is meaningless.
Mixing was especially common in Dalmatia and lot of Croats converted to orthodoxy (as well as in western Bosnia). That's why western Serbs have quite a lot typical Croatian surnames that don't exist in Serbia or Montenegro at all.

Even Pribislav admited admixture of Serbs and Croats in Dalmatia, because it's well known. Even Voyt ancestors were Croats who converted to orthodoxy and today they are ''Serbs''. LMAO.

Southern Croats don't score North Italian like admixture in majority, because Bronze Age Dalmatians were pulled SE by Roman admix most likely. I score it because I am part German, my father has some Germanic like input too. North Italian is south Italian + German. Tuscan like admix is far more realistic and that's what majority get.

This is gedmatch of coastal (Čakavian) Dalmatian Croat whose full ancestry is native to Kaštela up to before Ottoman migrations. So he has no any ancestry from BiH or Štokavian speakers.

Admix Results (sorted):

1 Baltic 34.39
2 North_Atlantic 26.92
3 West_Med 14.89
4 East_Med 12.56
5 West_Asian 5.67
6 Siberian 1.91
7 South_Asian 1.28
8 Red_Sea 1.22
9 Oceanian 0.51
10 Amerindian 0.47
11 Sub-Saharan 0.11
12 East_Asian 0.07

Single Population Sharing:

1 Croatian 4.06
2 Moldavian 4.68
3 Hungarian 6.31
4 Serbian 7.81
5 Ukrainian_Lviv 9.58
6 South_Polish 10.01
7 Ukrainian 10.49
8 Austrian 10.74
9 East_German 10.81
10 Romanian 11.55
11 Polish 13.5
12 Bulgarian 13.63
13 Southwest_Russian 14.01
14 Ukrainian_Belgorod 14.73
15 Russian_Smolensk 15.64
16 Estonian_Polish 15.85
17 Belorussian 16.42
18 Kargopol_Russian 17.85
19 West_German 18.05
20 Southwest_Finnish 18.17

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

1 61.9% Estonian_Polish + 38.1% Tuscan @ 1.73
2 62.8% Southwest_Russian + 37.2% North_Italian @ 1.99
3 52.3% Estonian + 47.7% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.05
4 71.3% Ukrainian + 28.7% Tuscan @ 2.17
5 64.8% Southwest_Russian + 35.2% Tuscan @ 2.19
6 54.9% Lithuanian + 45.1% Tuscan @ 2.2
7 74.1% Ukrainian + 25.9% West_Sicilian @ 2.21
8 61.1% Belorussian + 38.9% Tuscan @ 2.43
9 65.2% Estonian_Polish + 34.8% West_Sicilian @ 2.45
10 79.7% South_Polish + 20.3% Algerian_Jewish @ 2.53
11 59.5% Estonian + 40.5% West_Sicilian @ 2.53
12 62.3% Russian_Smolensk + 37.7% Tuscan @ 2.54
13 78.9% Ukrainian + 21.1% Italian_Jewish @ 2.56
14 68% Serbian + 32% Estonian_Polish @ 2.59
15 62.6% Estonian + 37.4% South_Italian @ 2.64
16 58% Serbian + 42% Ukrainian @ 2.68
17 69.4% South_Polish + 30.6% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.7
18 59.9% Bulgarian + 40.1% Estonian @ 2.74
19 79.8% South_Polish + 20.2% Italian_Jewish @ 2.74
20 58.4% Lithuanian + 41.6% West_Sicilian @ 2.77

His K15

1 Moldavian 3.76
2 Croatian 4.2
3 Hungarian 5.2
4 Serbian 7.89
5 Ukrainian_Lviv 7.95
6 Austrian 8.43
7 Ukrainian 8.61
8 South_Polish 8.75
9 East_German 10.24
10 Romanian 10.5
11 Polish 11.38
12 Russian_Smolensk 12.49
13 Ukrainian_Belgorod 12.79
14 Bulgarian 12.91
15 Southwest_Russian 13.01
16 Belorussian 14.37
17 Estonian_Polish 14.42
18 Southwest_Finnish 14.81
19 Finnish 14.89
20 Kargopol_Russian 15.51

1 76% Ukrainian + 24% West_Sicilian @ 1.61
2 73.1% Ukrainian + 26.9% Tuscan @ 1.78
3 79.9% Ukrainian + 20.1% Italian_Jewish @ 2.02
4 70.1% Ukrainian + 29.9% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.03
5 75.3% Ukrainian + 24.7% Italian_Abruzzo @ 2.08
6 78.1% Ukrainian + 21.9% South_Italian @ 2.11
7 80.5% Ukrainian + 19.5% Algerian_Jewish @ 2.17
8 76.5% Ukrainian + 23.5% East_Sicilian @ 2.18
9 76% Ukrainian + 24% Central_Greek @ 2.27
10 52.4% Serbian + 47.6% Ukrainian @ 2.36
11 77.9% Ukrainian_Lviv + 22.1% West_Sicilian @ 2.41
12 80.5% Ukrainian + 19.5% Sephardic_Jewish @ 2.41
13 71.8% Ukrainian + 28.2% Greek @ 2.42
14 75.1% Ukrainian_Lviv + 24.9% Tuscan @ 2.5
15 50.2% Serbian + 49.8% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2.51
16 70% South_Polish + 30% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.55
17 63.8% Polish + 36.2% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.58
18 75.7% Ukrainian + 24.3% Ashkenazi @ 2.61
19 55.4% Ukrainian + 44.6% Romanian @ 2.63
20 55.7% Estonian + 44.3% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.76

All other samples in South Croat Slavic cluster have genetics like that.

K16 modern

1 Croat (Croatia) 2.6
2 Hungarian (Hungary) 3.1
3 Hungarian (Budapest) 3.48
4 Slovenian (Slovenia) 3.82
5 Croat (Bosnia-Herzegovina) 3.83
6 Bosnian (Bosnia-Herzegovina) 3.93
7 Serbian (Bosnia-Herzegovina) 4.23
8 Slovak (Slovakia) 4.4
9 German_Lipsian ((Saxony)) 4.48
10 Pole (EastPoland) 4.86
11 Pole (Wroclaw) 4.98
12 Czech (Czechia) 5.05
13 Cossack (Zaporozhie) 5.16
14 Ukrainian (Ukraine) 5.67
15 Austrian (Austria) 5.73
16 Ukrainians_west (WestUkraine) 5.88
17 Dutch (Netherlands) 6.01
18 Sorb (Lusatia) 6.04
19 Pole (WestPoland) 6.06
20 German (Germany) 6.14

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

1 67.7% Pole (EastPoland) + 32.3% Bulgarian (Bulgaria) @ 1.63
2 67.1% Pole (EastPoland) + 32.9% Macedonian (Macedonia) @ 1.87
3 90.9% Pole (EastPoland) + 9.1% Turk (Trabzon) @ 1.9
4 78.6% Pole (EastPoland) + 21.4% Greek (Thessaloniki) @ 1.9
5 78.6% Pole (EastPoland) + 21.4% Albanian (Albania) @ 1.91
6 81.1% Pole (EastPoland) + 18.9% Greek (Macedonia) @ 1.95
7 51.2% Belarusian (Belarus) + 48.8% Macedonian (Macedonia) @ 1.97
8 58.1% Pole (EastPoland) + 41.9% Serbian (Serbia) @ 2
9 58.6% Serbian (Serbia) + 41.4% Belarusian (Belarus) @ 2.01
10 54.4% Serbian (Bosnia-Herzegovina) + 45.6% Pole (EastPoland) @ 2.05
11 66.7% Pole (Wroclaw) + 33.3% Macedonian (Macedonia) @ 2.06
12 66.1% Belarusian (Belarus) + 33.9% Italian (Tuscany) @ 2.07
13 73.7% Croat (Croatia) + 26.3% Pole (EastPoland) @ 2.08
14 84.8% Croat (Croatia) + 15.2% Belarusian (Belarus) @ 2.08
15 84.2% Croat (Croatia) + 15.8% Pole (Poland) @ 2.1
16 79.3% Pole (EastPoland) + 20.7% Greek (Greece) @ 2.11
17 76.2% Pole (EastPoland) + 23.8% Kosovar (Kosovo) @ 2.11
18 54.3% Montenegrian (Montenegro) + 45.7% Belarusian (Belarus) @ 2.12
19 75% Croat (Croatia) + 25% Pole (Wroclaw) @ 2.13
20 89.1% Pole (EastPoland) + 10.9% Cypriot (Cyprus) @ 2.14

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Est.1992

This is gedmatch of coastal (Čakavian) Dalmatian Croat whose full ancestry is native to Kaštela up to before Ottoman migrations. So he has no any ancestry from BiH or Štokavian speakers.

Admix Results (sorted):

1 Baltic 34.39
2 North_Atlantic 26.92
3 West_Med 14.89
4 East_Med 12.56
5 West_Asian 5.67
6 Siberian 1.91
7 South_Asian 1.28
8 Red_Sea 1.22
9 Oceanian 0.51
10 Amerindian 0.47
11 Sub-Saharan 0.11
12 East_Asian 0.07

Single Population Sharing:

1 Croatian 4.06
2 Moldavian 4.68
3 Hungarian 6.31
4 Serbian 7.81
5 Ukrainian_Lviv 9.58
6 South_Polish 10.01
7 Ukrainian 10.49
8 Austrian 10.74
9 East_German 10.81
10 Romanian 11.55
11 Polish 13.5
12 Bulgarian 13.63
13 Southwest_Russian 14.01
14 Ukrainian_Belgorod 14.73
15 Russian_Smolensk 15.64
16 Estonian_Polish 15.85
17 Belorussian 16.42
18 Kargopol_Russian 17.85
19 West_German 18.05
20 Southwest_Finnish 18.17

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

1 61.9% Estonian_Polish + 38.1% Tuscan @ 1.73
2 62.8% Southwest_Russian + 37.2% North_Italian @ 1.99
3 52.3% Estonian + 47.7% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.05
4 71.3% Ukrainian + 28.7% Tuscan @ 2.17
5 64.8% Southwest_Russian + 35.2% Tuscan @ 2.19
6 54.9% Lithuanian + 45.1% Tuscan @ 2.2
7 74.1% Ukrainian + 25.9% West_Sicilian @ 2.21
8 61.1% Belorussian + 38.9% Tuscan @ 2.43
9 65.2% Estonian_Polish + 34.8% West_Sicilian @ 2.45
10 79.7% South_Polish + 20.3% Algerian_Jewish @ 2.53
11 59.5% Estonian + 40.5% West_Sicilian @ 2.53
12 62.3% Russian_Smolensk + 37.7% Tuscan @ 2.54
13 78.9% Ukrainian + 21.1% Italian_Jewish @ 2.56
14 68% Serbian + 32% Estonian_Polish @ 2.59
15 62.6% Estonian + 37.4% South_Italian @ 2.64
16 58% Serbian + 42% Ukrainian @ 2.68
17 69.4% South_Polish + 30.6% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.7
18 59.9% Bulgarian + 40.1% Estonian @ 2.74
19 79.8% South_Polish + 20.2% Italian_Jewish @ 2.74
20 58.4% Lithuanian + 41.6% West_Sicilian @ 2.77

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Looks like a Russian/Ukrainian with an Ashkenazi grandparent.

(K15)
75.7% Ukrainian + 24.3% Ashkenazi @ 2.61