Lol to the j(2)erk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarzyna
I know what is divorced but what is dissolved? For a divorce in Germany you need a minimum of one year of separation.
Printable View
Lol to the j(2)erk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarzyna
I know what is divorced but what is dissolved? For a divorce in Germany you need a minimum of one year of separation.
Dissolved like ice dissolves in whiskey.Quote:
Originally Posted by rothaer
I mean by that separatedQuote:
Originally Posted by rothaer
Did he cheat on you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarzyna
My Y-DNA is I-L233, specifically I2a1a2a1a
Would like to do further testing, but I'm okay with it as is.
0.0Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarzyna
Important question: Was he J2a or J2b? :P
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y420629/
The most northern european haplogroup.
"The most northern european haplogroup." = troll
Whatever, more precise here
https://i.ibb.co/sJWF4j6Z/image.png
YDNA hg: J-Z467 (subclade of J2a1b)
mtDNA hg: H14b
these are still too generic to be informative.
paternal side is west Ukrainian (Hutsul), maternal side is northeast Romanian (Moldovan).
J2a, he had some distant Kavkaz ancestryQuote:
Originally Posted by Gannicus
Pseudoscience, and nothing more.
According to haplogroups, Swedes and Finns (I1) are more closely related to Jews and Arabs (J1) than to Norwegians and Dutch (R1b).
The presence of (E1b) and (T) is proof that Europeans are not pure, and that pseudoscience should be taken for what it is.
https://media4.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2...bbk4/giphy.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by Snorlax
yDNA is going off of the shortest chromosome. It is extremely helpful, but it is an incomplete picture.
In the US, divorce documents have the word, “dissolution” in the title of the paperwork. I assumed it was legally done and over with.Quote:
Originally Posted by rothaer
Why would I care of someone is R1b or E1b? If they are like me, it's okay already. Priority is ethnic and culture, not a small piece of genetic information.Quote:
Originally Posted by Highwayman
Autosomal is important tho.
Well, I'm sorry a fellow J2a was a dick to you. Sorry Dick :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Katarzyna
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highwayman
It's not the whole story for sure. But it is a valuable clue when modeling autosomal admixture. It makes me wonder if there was some ancient Sicilian nightclubbing going on further back in my family tree.Quote:
Why would I care of someone is R1b or E1b? If they are like me, it's okay already. Priority is ethnic and culture, not a small piece of genetic information.
Autosomal is important tho.
I've seen it in G25 and qpAdm that I can be modeled with a pinch of detectable Near East spice. If I were Y-haplogroup R1b, R1a, I1, or I2, I'd dismiss it as extra ANF. Which, it could still be that, however, my Y-haplo does raise the suspicion.
We have to be honest it's literally your Dad, his Dad, and so on till you reach places like Italy, Greece et cetera. How cool is that!?
So what is your yDNA?Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorlax
R1b-M269>PF7562
I don’t know, maybe R1b kind of the northwestern europeans have, or maybe I2, or maybe niggerish E1b or something, I don’t know and I don’t care. It doesn’t matter, all what matters in this subject is autosomal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Highwayman
You are interested in this just for fun and because you had the luck to have a not so common haplogroup if we also take your ancestry in the equation, and it’s fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gannicus
Yes, I do study this stuff for fun. And yes, haplogroups are important and indicate historical migration patterns. As you correctly pointed out they are not as important as autosomal DNA, but also not as insignificant as you are implying. There's really nothing trivial about it. It's my father's line and his and so on. Don't glaze over that point. If they weren't important, population geneticists wouldn't bother tracking the uniparental markers in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorlax
Science use this markers because it’s cheaper and quicker than doing a complete sequencing of autosomal DNA in multiple individuals. Imagine a case where you take 2 individuals DNA and ignore the autosomal part but take as a reference their YDNA, and their results goes R1b and E1b. Who’s the white and who’s the jamaican?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gannicus
No. That's not it at all. Uniparental markers are used in conjunction with autosomal DNA. As I mentioned before it reveals migration patterns. R1b is strongly associated with the Western Steppe Herders. Scholars have the complete picture when they have the autosomal, uniparental markers, and the archaeological evidence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorlax
To add to the migration patterns, it has been used as evidence to show West Eurasian back migration to Africa. Sirak et al 2021 studied some medieval Christian era Nubian remains in Kulubnarti. Some of the males were found to be J2. QpAdm models revealed around 10-25% West Eurasian admixture in some of these Nubian individuals. This is a case where haplogroups helped signal population movement.
If I were a population geneticist, I wouldn't be studying the Jamaican and European males' Y-haplogroups alone. The uniparental markers would be given important consideration as part of the genetic puzzle, not dismissed. If you take the Jamaican male's DNA and study it, it will likely reflect the colonial history of the Island. The haplogroups are an important part in uncovering their ancestry. Your analogy actually adds to my point. If the Jamaican male was R1b, then it would add weight to the findings of him having some European admixture. Potentially British derived, given the fact that Jamaica was a colonial possession of Great Britain. And if the white male only took a Y-haplogroup test and was E1b, then it would reveal deep connections to North Africa and the Near East considering Europe doesn't exist in a vacuum. Mediterranean interactions during the bronze age and later Hellenistic and Roman periods really facilitated a lot of spit swapping so to speak.
To reiterate, it cannot be used alone in understanding one's ancestry. However, it can serve as a valuable piece of evidence. And it's critical to point out what some people miss is that it is a tangible (you can shake your father's hand). If your father was R1b, and if you had a time machine you could go back and shake your great, great, great, etc grandfather's hand that could have been an ancient Corded Ware or Yamnaya male.
I agree with you that it takes a back seat to autosomal DNA, however, it should not be dismissed as simply winning the lottery or buying into horoscopes and identifying as a Leo. And if we are talking about being lucky, I'd rather be R1b and have won the mega million lottery, sipping a Margarita on a beach in Hawaii typing this post on my phone.
Edit: While I do study this stuff for fun, I do take it seriously. On occasion I like to be informal with my posts because that is the flavor of this forum. Adding a bit of levity never hurts.
What you mention about whether the Jamaican had been E1b, his ancestor could have been North African or Middle Eastern, reinforces my point further, because I was referring to the fact that he could have been directly SSA, which is where there are the most E1b. There is also some R1b sub-clade originating in Europe (probably with the EEF or WHG) that expanded throughout Africa, which reinforces my point further. That is to say, haplogroups are useful for many things and at the same time for nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gannicus
I get the sense you didn’t fully read my post or maybe just skimmed parts of it. That’s fine. Online discussions often settle into fixed positions anyway. I hold my position for valid reasons because of how these markers are used in population genetics. And they are not overlooked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorlax
I'll add that I take the study of history and genetics seriously. It's a deep passion of mine. And I sometimes I like to be more informal to add levity to the forum and to make things more fun. It has controversial characters. Some serious discussion takes place here, but the overall flavor of the forum is laid back.
I read your previous post in full; don't worry about that. What I want you to understand is that I have a firm position on the issue of haplogroups, regardless of the example I give you and how you interpret it. You shouldn't take my position too seriously, either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gannicus
I’m going to keep this respectful, but I have to ask, if your position isn’t meant to be taken seriously, then why take the time to write and post it at all? Especially in a thread where people are genuinely sharing personal information and trying to have a meaningful discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorlax
My haplogroup is I1 Z73. Russian.
I was just giving my opinion, but you are right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gannicus
Ofc not goys, it's very Southern/Balkan/RomanQuote:
Originally Posted by majevica
WGS now says I'm E-L241 > E-Y251806 > E-BY5635
https://i.postimg.cc/7PJC6922/ydna.png
Bro:
Target: Slovakia_Roman_IA:CGG021935__AD_236__Cov_67.93%
Distance: 1.5342% / 0.01534191 | R3P
67.2 Montenegro_MLBA
18.4 Montenegro_Doclea_Roman.SG
14.4 Israel_PPNB
Target: Slovakia_Roman_IA:CGG021935__AD_236__Cov_67.93%
Distance: 2.0057% / 0.02005711 | R3P
52.0 Albanian_North_Macedonia
44.8 French_Corsica
3.2 Saudi
0.018 m = 92% Croat_Dalmatia + 8% Slovakia_Roman_IA:CGG021935__AD_236__Cov_67.93%
R1b-M269>Z2103>Z2108>CTS9219>BY611>Z2705>Y32147>Y12603 9
https://i.ibb.co/RTQ6ww9n/Screenshot...727-Chrome.jpg
Some of the ancient Macedonian samples from royal tombs of Vergina are R1b-Z2103 and their Paeonian and Dardanian neighbors were as well
There is a chance this was the haplogroup of many warrior kings of the Balkans
Skanderbeg Justinian Constantine Alexander the Great Belisarius
I opened a new chat with OpenAI and shared with it my ancestral path: J-M304>M172>M410>CTS7683>L26>PF5088>...>Z28598>FT135 488>Y36180>BY82631>Y95647>FTC5373
Perfect — that screenshot shows your exact paternal (Y-DNA) lineage from deep prehistory down to your personal terminal branch. I’ll decode what each major stage of your path actually means in real-world history and geography.
Your path:
J-M304 → J-M172 → J-M410 → CTS7683 → L26 → PF5088 → Z28598 → FT135488 → Y36180 → BY82631 → Y95647 → FTC5373
Let’s walk this from ancient to recent.
1. J-M304
�� Origin: Upper Paleolithic Near East (~45,000–30,000 years ago)
This is the root of all J haplogroups. This lineage formed among:
Early West Eurasian hunter-gatherers
Somewhere in the Near East / South Кавказ / Iran–Levant corridor
This already places your deep paternal origin firmly in West Asia, not Europe.
2. J-M172 (J2)
�� Neolithic Farmers (~12,000–9,000 BCE)
This is the big one for civilization history.
J-M172 is strongly associated with:
Neolithic farming expansion
Early:
Anatolians
Levantines
Zagros populations
This is one of the primary Y-DNA lineages that carried agriculture into Europe.
3. J-M410 (J2a)
��️ Core Mediterranean Civilization Line
This branch dominates among:
Ancient Greeks
Phoenicians
Romans
Anatolians
Coastal Levant
Southern Italy
This is the main “Mediterranean civilization” Y-DNA lineage.
4. J-L26
�� Aegean–Anatolian–Levantine Expansion
This branch explodes during:
Bronze Age Aegean
Mycenaean & Minoan world
Phoenician sea trade
Your line is now firmly inside the eastern Mediterranean network.
5. J-PF5088
⚓ Eastern Mediterranean Coastal Spread
Common in:
Greece
Southern Italy
Cyprus
Coastal Anatolia
Levant
This is a mariner / trader–heavy distribution.
6. J-Z28598
��️ Roman Imperial Diffusion Layer
This branch shows up repeatedly in:
Roman Italy
Roman Gaul
Roman Britain
Balkan provinces
This is where your paternal line likely enters Western Europe.
7. J-FTC5373
�� Your Specific Family Line (Medieval–Post-Roman Europe)
This is your personal modern branch. Based on the ancient matches you’ve shown earlier (Rome, Levant BA, Nubia, medieval Germany, etc.), your direct paternal history very likely follows this pattern:
Levant / Anatolia → Aegean → Italy → Roman Gaul → Northern Europe / Britain
Which fits perfectly with:
Your qpAdm “southern proxy” behavior
Your G25 Roman-province alignment
Your strongly NW European autosomal profile today
My paternal line comes from Belgium
That actually fits your Y-DNA story perfectly—and it tightens the historical interpretation in a very clean way.
If your documented paternal line is from Belgium, then the most parsimonious explanation for your Y-DNA (J-FTC5373 → J2a) is:
Eastern Mediterranean J2a → Roman Italy → Roman Gaul/Belgica → Medieval Belgium → Modern Northwest Europe (you)
This is one of the classic, well-documented diffusion paths for J2a into Northwestern Europe.
1. Why Belgium is one of the best possible landing zones for J2a
Roman-era Belgium wasn’t “backwater Europe.” It was:
The province of Gallia Belgica
Heavily settled by:
Roman soldiers
Administrators
Merchants
Craftsmen
With direct migration from:
Italy
The Aegean
The eastern Mediterranean
J2a is:
Extremely common in Roman Italy
Well-attested in Gallo-Roman burials
Rare in pre-Roman Celtic males
So when you see J2a in Belgium, the default assumption is:
Roman or post-Roman Mediterranean male line absorbed into a local Belgic / Gallo-Roman population.