What is the currently accepted explanation for the Sicilian/Ashkenazi genetic similarity?

Also, longbowman, what makes skull measurements so bad. AJs are very clearly brachycephalic, and the curve is very steep, indicating a very homogenous race - this of course can be explained by all the inbreeding. Every ashkenazi is, at most, 30th cousins, which is astounding. Anyway, why is skull measurement a bad method - it is obvious that SJs are dolicho- and AJs brachy- cephalic, and to me that is decent proof that something is very different (unless inbreeding instigates brachycephaly, which I doubt)

http://image.slidesharecdn.com/jewis...?cb=1419126341

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ToBeOrNotToBe

Also, longbowman, what makes skull measurements so bad. AJs are very clearly brachycephalic, and the curve is very steep, indicating a very homogenous race - this of course can be explained by all the inbreeding. Every ashkenazi is, at most, 30th cousins, which is astounding. Anyway, why is skull measurement a bad method - it is obvious that SJs are dolicho- and AJs brachy- cephalic, and to me that is decent proof that something is very different (unless inbreeding instigates brachycephaly, which I doubt)

http://image.slidesharecdn.com/jewis...?cb=1419126341

---

Because it correlates terribly with actual ancestry:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._index_map.jpg

Kelto-Slavic? Is this a term that has been used apart from this map? No. There is a reason phrenology has been discarded in favour of autosomal DNA and SNP sharing.

Ashkenazis are homogenous but genetically diverse, the most genetically diverse of all European ethnicities. Imagine a black person and a white person having kids, but those kids marry each other for 20 generations. Inbred but still mixed race.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dylan

There's a wide variety of southern italian phenotypes so I can't describe a single type and be accurate.
Some Ashkenazis and some Southern Italians as well as other Italians definitely overlap. But for the most part this is not the case from my observations

---

Describe some of the southern Italian looks you see?

Yes, it correlates terribly with ancesty. That much is clear, when the Scottish are closer in cephalic index to africans than to the swiss. however, if sephardim and ashkenazim were of the same kin before the went separate directions from northern italy, why did the cephalic index between the two groups change. Imagine if the english killed all the icelandic and settled for say 1,500 years, but once these 1,500 years are done, there is a difference in cephalix index of near 10 points. that's what i don't get - if SJs and AJs are ultimately of the same kin, why is the CI so different. Is it because SJs mixed with dolichocephalic iberians whilst AJs mixed with brachycephalic slavs? or are they from two different groups?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ToBeOrNotToBe

Yes, it correlates terribly with ancesty. That much is clear, when the Scottish are closer in cephalic index to africans than to the swiss. however, if sephardim and ashkenazim were of the same kin before the went separate directions from northern italy, why did the cephalic index between the two groups change. Imagine if the english killed all the icelandic and settled for say 1,500 years, but once these 1,500 years are done, there is a difference in cephalix index of near 10 points. that's what i don't get - if SJs and AJs are ultimately of the same kin, why is the CI so different. Is it because SJs mixed with dolichocephalic iberians whilst AJs mixed with brachycephalic slavs? or are they from two different groups?

---

Actually insularity would quickly change their physique.

They're not from two different groups, so if there is an ancestral reason for it, it'd be recent. There was certainly some degree of admixture with those groups, as I have demonstrated. It could also be 1,700 years of independent development or drift - remember, there were once only about 250 AJs, which is why Tay-Sachs and other diseases are so prevalent. Numerous factors. Either way, cephalic index is a relict of a bygone era. It's no more relevant to ancestry than measuring the average size of the big toe, or the average curve of the penis.

Yes, these things are determined by genetics (unless you're an ancient Mayan and you're into head-binding) but why bother? DNA is so much better and cephalic index changes in a generation. Look how patchworky Sicily and France are on that map. That's not 1,700 years, either.

Last thing, do you think Ashkenazi intelligence is a result of the larger race(s) that comprise AJs (as in, the Roman influence) or a result of eugenics (you know what I mean - richer jews had more children, jews gene pool full of higher IQs)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sikeliot

Describe some of the southern Italian looks you see?

---

Varying Skin and hair color, but usually darker
Varying Eye color, but usually brown.

Usually pointier larger noses (I don't have a very good vocabulary)

I notice that a lot of Italians usually have tall heads in general, but I find that Sicilians often have rounder skulls and wider faces. This is also common in my family (Abruzzese)

Bushier eyebrows than your average European, but this is hard to judge since so many people wax or pluck

Overall I haven't been exposed to lots of southern Italians and I have a pretty shitty vocabulary, but that's the best I can say at the moment.

Italians and Ashkenazis have a lot of traits that are slightly similar, but if you look close enough are different.
E.g. The Roman nose is similar to that of a lot of Ashkenazi at first sight, but is different.

Do you think Ashkenazis and southern Italians look European?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ToBeOrNotToBe

Last thing, do you think Ashkenazi intelligence is a result of the larger race(s) that comprise AJs (as in, the Roman influence) or a result of eugenics (you know what I mean - richer jews had more children, jews gene pool full of higher IQs)

---

Probably mainly Ashkenazi culture, plus a bit of the latter. IQ isn't 100% inheritable anyway, if you give your kids to be homeschool by people with down syndrome it doesn't matter how clever their biological parents are, they won't end up particularly bright. Sephardics have average IQs but are of the same Roman stock, as are Italians themselves.

There has been around 1,200 years of pressure on Ashkenazis - but not Sephardics - to do white-collar work. In many cases they've been prohibited from manual labour (though my father's family were farmers, manual labourers and soldiers). That, coupled with putting literacy on a pedestal, probably accounts for most of the AJ IQ superiority (which remember, only applies to verbal IQ; AJ spatial IQ is average to only very slightly above average at 98-105, perhaps showcasing how it's a cultural thing).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Longbowman

Probably mainly Ashkenazi culture, plus a bit of the latter. IQ isn't 100% inheritable anyway, if you give your kids to be homeschool by people with down syndrome it doesn't matter how clever their biological parents are, they won't end up particularly bright. Sephardics have average IQs but are of the same Roman stock, as are Italians themselves.

There has been around 1,200 years of pressure on Ashkenazis - but not Sephardics - to do white-collar work. In many cases they've been prohibited from manual labour (though my father's family were farmers, manual labourers and soldiers). That, coupled with putting literacy on a pedestal, probably accounts for most of the AJ IQ superiority (which remember, only applies to verbal IQ; AJ spatial IQ is average to only very slightly above average at 98-105, perhaps showcasing how it's a cultural thing).

---

"if you give your kids to be homeschool by people with down syndrome it doesn't matter how clever their biological parents are, they won't end up particularly bright"


such a funny way to put it! had me laughing