White Serb/Sorb gedmatch result!

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Originally Posted by Peterski

With Czechs it even increases to 60%. With Ukrainians it also increases. Haven't tried Slovaks yet and Poles yet.

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I can see now that it's possible the Sorbs spread their namesake to the south slavs already present, even though they were more genetically close to the Croats.

Possible, but I find it unlikely given that those already present don't really appreciate the new guy taking charge and choosing the team name (especially given that the new guy numbers 10x less than those already present (which wouldn't be the case if Sorbs derived from Serbs)). And if they were that influential, why couldn't they influence the Croats to change their name as well, given that they were closer to each other than Sorbs to Bosnian Serbs

In the same way, it's just as likely--using that line of reasoning--that the Sorbs from the north got their name from the Serbs in the south

Sorbs cluster closer to Croats because the region of todays Croatia got a greater influx of Slavs settling in that area than todays Serbia and not because they are affiliated. It also helped that the Ancient population of western Roman Dalmatia was more north shifted that the eastern part.

Croats descend from White Croats who also came from the north.

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Originally Posted by Voight

Interesting, although it's kinda hard to grasp the idea that hundreds of thousands of Sorbs moved to Bosnia/Serbia and intermixed with the Illyrians there to a 50/50 extent.

There were 100,000 Sorbs in Lusatia in 1900, and there are less than 100,000 today. Even assuming that Sorbs were much more prevalent back then, it just doesn't seem possible that they were so extensive to be able to send that many people to the Balkans and intermix with them to such an extent.

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Serbs don't only descend from Sorbs. They descend from many different Slavic tribes (as do other South Slavs). They just get their name from Sorbs since Sorbs were the culturally most dominant Slavic tribe at the time of their early nation building phase.

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Originally Posted by Peterski

Croats descend from White Croats who also came from the north.

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Just cause they got their name from White Croats doesn't mean most (or even a huge portion) of their Slavic genetics is from them. The White Croats would have heavily intermixed with Central European Slavs before settling in Croatia. And even after settling in the borders of Croatia, they would have mixed with other Slavs.

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Originally Posted by Voight

I think this supports more the theory that Sorbs and Serbs branched off from a source population, most likely somewhere more eastern, rather than one being an offshoot of the other.

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White Serbia was "beyond Hungary (from Byzantine perspective), neighbouring White Croatia and Francia". it could be only there.
the White Croatia is obviuosly not the one in Ukraine, but the one in northern Bohemia (Charvati, Charvatci). Slavic tribes in Bohemia:

http://labphys.tf.czu.cz/CeskeKmeny.jpg

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Originally Posted by Voight

Is it possible to make a different model such that Sorbs are the ones that have 50% Serb admixture

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no, because Sorbs have little to none Paleo-Balkan(Greek-like) admixture.

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Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

White Serbia was "beyond Hungary (from Byzantine perspective), neighbouring White Croatia and Francia". it could be only there.
the White Croatia is obviuosly not the one in Ukraine, but the one in northern Bohemia (Charvati, Charvatci). Slavic tribes in Bohemia:

http://labphys.tf.czu.cz/CeskeKmeny.jpg

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First time I've heard of the White Croatia in Bohemia. It makes more sense for White Croatia to be there. I wonder why it's always placed in Ukraine instead.

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Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

no, because Sorbs have little to none Paleo-Balkan(Greek-like) admixture.

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Maybe he could model them as something like 50% Serb + 50% Latvian?

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Originally Posted by Mingle

First time I've heard of the White Croatia in Bohemia. It makes more sense for White Croatia to be there. I wonder why it's always placed in Ukraine instead.

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The Croat tribe in Ukraine was always mentioned as "White Croats", always with this "White", in historical sources.
These were mentioned just as "Croats", but when Constantine VII mentions "White Croatia which neighbours the Franks" he is obviously talking about this one.