Southern Italians have no ancient Greek ancestry

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10-07-2020, 04:37 PM
Samnium

They even have recent Greek ancestry, notably for Apulia, Calabria... So claiming that they don't have any ancient Greek ancestry is just laughable.

Compare BA Sicilians and modern Sicilians, you will notice a difference.
10-07-2020, 04:57 PM
Ajeje Brazorf

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deusex99

Dude, you are talking with a complexed Mexican mestizo who use unreliable not fully native samples to push the agenda that Europeans are heavily mixed to cope with his own mixed ancestry.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...Freud_LIFE.jpg

Wow, that will be my new bio :) Anyway Tacitus is right, without ancient DNA we can't make certain statements, the best we can do for now is to speculate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samnium

They even have recent Greek ancestry, notably for Apulia, Calabria... So claiming that they don't have any ancient Greek ancestry is just laughable.

Yeah, indeed.
10-07-2020, 05:02 PM
Teutonski

Anyway whats your favorite sicilian club?
Was Skieliots classification based on your club picture accurate?
10-07-2020, 05:06 PM
Vid Flumina

Iron Age Southern Italians (at least those belonging to the Oscan-speaking tribes) are said to be no different from early Latins, Umbrians, Etruscans and Picentes from those who have seen Reich's (?) preliminary results. Only a couple of outliers are reported (one close to modern Sardinians and a couple of East Med shifted samples just like in Antonio et al. paper) so we are dealing again with substantial late to post-Iron Age gene flow/pop. replacement here.
10-07-2020, 05:33 PM
Deusex99

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vid Flumina

Iron Age Southern Italians (at least those belonging to the Oscan-speaking tribes) are said to be no different from early Latins, Umbrians, Etruscans and Picentes from those who have seen Reich's (?) preliminary results. Only a couple of outliers are reported (one close to modern Sardinians and a couple of East Med shifted samples just like in Antonio et al. paper) so we are dealing again with substantial late to post-Iron Age gene flow/pop. replacement here.

Oscans and Latins were 1000 BC Urnfield migrants. All Italians before that were typical farmers with the minority of East Med outliers.
10-07-2020, 05:35 PM
mena

many(but not majority) south italians have a small egyptian na ancestry on their dna results ive seen and you yourself look north african op
10-07-2020, 09:26 PM
Deusex99

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deusex99

Italian Campania is not representative. The study who published those samples states in the supplementary information that it has not checked the ancestry and the birthplace of those samples. We have Campanians on GEDMatch and they are identical to Apulians.

I've seen hundreds of GEDmatch samples and Apulians are perfectly average.

https://i.ibb.co/DLW6BK6/Screenshot-20200711-012413.jpg

Those are coastal Campanians anyway. Inland Campanians, whose ancestry/birthplace has been checked, are similar to Abruzzo/Molise (Sazzini et al 2016 and Di Gaetano et al 2012).
10-07-2020, 09:54 PM
grabielx

https://i.imgur.com/k2CcMIV.png
10-08-2020, 03:18 AM
Peterski

Can you try modelling modern Sicilians & South Italians using MBA/LBA Sicilians + other populations?
10-08-2020, 03:29 AM
Mingle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peterski

Then how do you explain that Bronze Age (before Greek colonization) Sicilians were very different than modern Sicilians?

I am talking for example about these samples (all of them were more West Med / less East Med than modern Sicilians):

Bronze-Age-Sicily-I10372
Bronze-Age-Sicily-I10373
Bronze-Age-Sicily-I3124
Bronze-Age-Sicily-I3125
Bronze-Age-Sicily-I3876
Bronze-Age-Sicily-I3878
Bronze-Age-Sicily-I4109
Bronze-Age-Sicily-I7796

^^^
None of those samples was close to modern Sicilians, all of them were much more Sardinian/Corsican/Iberian-shifted.

Using Global25 scaled:

Code:

ITA_Sicily_EBA:I3122,0.126344,0.165531,0.028661,-0.063631,0.06832,-0.034304,-0.001175,-0.002769,0.048881,0.087473,-0.001624,0.007493,-0.0333,-0.012661,-0.019815,0.005436,0.028163,0.007221,0.008673,-0.001126,-0.003244,-0.002226,-0.006532,-0.013014,-0.002275 ITA_Sicily_EBA:I3123,0.120652,0.165531,0.020365,-0.049419,0.049548,-0.020638,0.003055,-0.003461,0.036201,0.06761,-0.004709,0.009591,-0.018583,-0.004954,-0.016558,-0.002254,0.011474,-0.003421,-0.004274,-0.015257,-0.00549,-0.00507,-0.009244,-0.014339,0.004431 ITA_Sicily_EBA:I3124,0.126344,0.160454,0.029415,-0.042636,0.060319,-0.023427,-0.003055,-0.000462,0.026588,0.059773,-0.001137,0.008393,-0.017542,-0.006468,-0.014658,-0.016839,-0.004433,0.00038,0.006536,-0.007379,-0.004866,0.000618,-0.00912,-0.003976,0.000718 ITA_Sicily_EBA:I7807,0.125205,0.188888,0.015085,-0.066861,0.051394,-0.045459,0,-0.004384,0.03661,0.078179,0.008282,0.015736,-0.016947,0.011973,-0.032437,-0.019491,0.008345,-0.01685,-0.000754,-0.004627,-0.012104,0.003833,-0.014666,-0.011568,-0.000958 ITA_Sicily_EBA:I8561,0.134311,0.147252,0.043369,-0.01292,0.04924,-0.007251,-0.00423,0.006231,0.03661,0.051026,-0.004222,0.008842,-0.023637,-0.006331,-0.009772,0.001193,0.004433,-0.000633,-0.000754,-0.006878,-0.007736,0.005812,-0.005916,-0.013255,0.003592 ITA_Sicily_EBA:I11442,0.125205,0.167562,0.023381,-0.061047,0.053548,-0.026216,-0.00705,0.003231,0.032315,0.065058,0.007145,0.011839,-0.018434,-0.005092,-0.017915,-0.019358,-0.00678,-0.006208,0.003645,-0.007253,-0.004742,-0.004946,-0.008504,-0.014219,0.004311 ITA_Sicily_LBA:I3876,0.1161,0.165531,0.010559,-0.059432,0.0437,-0.022032,-0.00846,-0.003923,0.019839,0.056858,-0.00065,0.013788,-0.017393,0.003303,-0.018051,-0.016309,-0.00339,0.004687,0.006788,-0.001,-0.005366,0.003586,0.001602,-0.010845,0.006706 ITA_Sicily_LBA:I3878,0.119514,0.168578,0.015462,-0.063631,0.049855,-0.029562,-0.00799,-0.005538,0.026997,0.063054,-0.001786,0.01094,-0.019475,-0.011836,-0.019951,0.00053,0.011343,-0.003041,-0.00088,-0.003752,-0.009733,-0.003091,-0.006655,-0.014219,-0.005389 ITA_Sicily_LBA:I10372,0.133173,0.174671,0.00792,-0.065892,0.049855,-0.026216,-0.006815,-0.004384,0.033951,0.063965,-0.003248,0.008542,-0.02438,-0.001514,-0.025244,-0.031822,-0.005607,0.005321,0.01081,-0.015257,-0.009982,-0.00136,-0.005669,-0.013737,0.002155 ITA_Sicily_MBA:I3125,0.120652,0.162485,0.004148,-0.065569,0.045239,-0.023985,0.00611,-0.004154,0.027611,0.069796,0.004384,0.015736,-0.024975,-0.009358,-0.023072,0.004641,0.029467,-0.00038,0.005154,-0.004002,0.001123,0.00371,-0.00986,-0.013496,-0.001557 ITA_Sicily_MBA:I4109,0.118376,0.170609,0.007165,-0.076228,0.053856,-0.026495,-0.000705,-0.003231,0.030065,0.074717,-0.001137,0.017235,-0.024529,0.003578,-0.02253,-0.014717,-0.005215,-0.00114,0.004022,-0.015507,-0.009858,-0.00272,0.000986,-0.012411,0.005748

Distance to: ITA_Sicily_MBA:I4109
0.04965037 Sardinian
0.08508219 French_Corsica
0.09017750 Italian_Lazio
0.09213939 Sicilian_East
0.09222862 Italian_Apulia

Distance to: ITA_Sicily_MBA:I3125
0.04666990 Sardinian
0.07385622 French_Corsica
0.07954924 Italian_Lazio
0.08206636 Italian_Umbria
0.08365708 Italian_Campania

Distance to: ITA_Sicily_LBA:I10372
0.05491102 Sardinian
0.08114985 French_Corsica
0.08848051 Italian_Lazio
0.09046529 Italian_Apulia
0.09049673 Italian_Lombardy

Distance to: ITA_Sicily_LBA:I3878
0.03782324 Sardinian
0.06554333 French_Corsica
0.07313148 Italian_Lazio
0.07696144 Italian_Umbria
0.07903601 Italian_Tuscany

Distance to: ITA_Sicily_LBA:I3876
0.05478154 Sardinian
0.05759252 French_Corsica
0.06271652 Italian_Lazio
0.06441082 Italian_Apulia
0.06478119 Sicilian_East

Distance to: ITA_Sicily_EBA:I11442
0.03826780 Sardinian
0.06881276 French_Corsica
0.07897987 Italian_Lombardy
0.07979584 Italian_Lazio
0.08131195 Italian_Bergamo

Distance to: ITA_Sicily_EBA:I8561
0.03979033 Spanish_Pirineu
0.04029966 Spanish_La_Rioja
0.04193531 Spanish_Castello
0.04293118 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.04320926 French_South

Distance to: ITA_Sicily_EBA:I7807
0.06047338 Sardinian
0.09852818 French_Corsica
0.10543786 Italian_Lazio
0.10808443 Sicilian_East
0.10825288 Italian_Apulia

Distance to: ITA_Sicily_EBA:I3124
0.04159034 Sardinian
0.05265708 French_Corsica
0.06018985 Italian_Lombardy
0.06168108 Italian_Bergamo
0.06529842 Spanish_Menorca

Distance to: ITA_Sicily_EBA:I3123
0.02793917 Sardinian
0.05974928 French_Corsica
0.07272875 Spanish_La_Rioja
0.07284828 Italian_Lazio
0.07422434 Italian_Bergamo

Distance to: ITA_Sicily_EBA:I3122
0.03812461 Sardinian
0.09521185 Spanish_La_Rioja
0.09578470 French_Corsica
0.10773453 Spanish_Murcia
0.10912516 Spanish_Castello

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Modern Sicilians are probably mostly descended from Greek and Phoenician settlers.

How much Pre-Greek, Greek, and Post-Greek (Phoenician, etc.) ancestry would you say Sicilians/South Italians have?

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