The Genomic History Of Southeastern Europe

According to this table, Ust-Ishim is like my grandpa, older 25k years than greatgrandpa :picard2:

The only places where I2a1b was found were, Germany, Spain and Sweden

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Originally Posted by Kelmendasi

@The Destroyer: No I2a1 was found why you lying, only I2a2 was

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So what? They have the same roots, technically, they were both just I2 before. Both of them are Old European ones. Here is a good explanation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97AjbjCF_C4

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Destroyer

So what? They have the same roots, technically, they were both just I2 before. Both of them are Old European ones. Here is a good explanation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97AjbjCF_C4

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Same roots but seperated over 1,000s of years. Still your specific cluster of I2a isn't Balkanic

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Destroyer

So what? They have the same roots, technically, they were both just I2 before. Both of them are Old European ones. Here is a good explanation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97AjbjCF_C4

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Today is 2017, not 2013 or even 2010 when theory about I2a1b since Balkan Ice Age started.
Shut the fuck up.
http://i.imgur.com/YDTcLCl.jpg

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Originally Posted by Europa Nazione

Today is 2017, not 2013 or even 2010 when theory about I2a1b since Balkan Ice Age started.
Shut the fuck up.
[IM]http://i.imgur.com/YDTcLCl.jpg[/IMG]

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Leave him be, his brain machine broke after seeing the results xD

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Originally Posted by Europa Nazione

Today is 2017, not 2013 or even 2010 when theory about I2a1b since Balkan Ice Age started.
Shut the fuck up.
http://i.imgur.com/YDTcLCl.jpg

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So what? It may change back again, contrary to your Communist wishes. Science is a fluid concept.

His arguments (youtube videos and forum comments from 2010).
Our arguments (scientific papers and studies).
Enough.

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Originally Posted by Europa Nazione

His arguments (youtube videos and forum comments from 2010).
Our arguments (scientific papers and studies).
Enough.

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You're just jealous because my truth is older than yours.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Europa Nazione

His arguments (youtube videos and forum comments from 2010).
Our arguments (scientific papers and studies).
Enough.

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He should embrace his Slavic forefathers who were obviously warriors and had the balls to trek southward unlike the ones that stayed behind.

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Originally Posted by The Destroyer

You're just jealous because my truth is older than yours.

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Boiii your "Turth" just got destroyed right before your own eyes

Now we can conclude that the Balkans had 0 I2a1b carriers

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Originally Posted by Kelmendasi

Now we can conclude that the Balkans had 0 I2a1b carriers

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How does one research tell us anything? We should do several more researches, by other scientist teams, to make sure.

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Originally Posted by blondbeast

He should embrace his Slavic forefathers who were obviously warriors and had the balls to trek southward unlike the ones that stayed behind.

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We don't know what ydna he could be. Anything is possible.

Unfortunately we still dont really have an extensive sample base. This study has certaintly shed some light but I dont think anything can be ruled out just yet.

Destroyer:

http://i.imgur.com/rGXKWX0.mp4

http://s6.ifotos.pl/img/TGHOSEE1p_aaqnsee.png

http://s2.ifotos.pl/img/TGHOSEE2a_aaqnapp.png

http://s2.ifotos.pl/img/TGHOSEE3a_aaqnapw.png

http://s2.ifotos.pl/img/TGHOSEE4p_aaqnsas.png

http://s2.ifotos.pl/img/TGHOSEE5p_aaqnsqh.png

http://s2.ifotos.pl/img/TGHOSEE6p_aaqnsqn.png

http://s5.ifotos.pl/img/aut1png_aaqnqwq.png

http://s10.ifotos.pl/img/aut2png_aaqnqsh.png

http://s5.ifotos.pl/img/aut3png_aaqnqsx.png

http://s5.ifotos.pl/img/aut4png_aaqnqsn.png

So much R1b in Balkan WHGs.

WE WUZ DINARICS

Anyone know if Varna_outlier is the famous Varna man(the guy with all the gold) or is it one of the farmers(Varna man was sampled in this)?

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Originally Posted by Litvin

Is there any I2a-Din or R1a in pre-Medieval Balkan samples?

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It seems there's a I2a-Din in one of the Motala samples.

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/sho...rope?p=1294446

Post #44.

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Originally Posted by Xhak Bauër

There is too much bullshit written by stupid fucks across this entire forum. I will make it simple: As I said before months ago and I was right, Albanians were more or less unchanged autosomally since the Bronze Age.

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A large increase of the amount of J/E in modern Balkanites and Bronze Age Balkanites clustering with N. Italians/Iberians is somehow autosomal continuity to you?

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Originally Posted by XenophobicPrussian

It seems there's a I2a-Din in one of the Motala samples.

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/sho...rope?p=1294446

Post #44.

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is it Slavic or??

It means it came from the north with goths or slavs

So I2a1b comes from Northern Europe after all, it feels good to know that I'm not descended from some filthy wop.

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Originally Posted by Sockorer

So I2a1b comes from Northern Europe after all, it feels good to know that I'm not descended from some filthy wop.

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your religion is wop though.

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Originally Posted by blondbeast

your religion is wop though.

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Very true, however religion transcends race.

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Originally Posted by Sockorer

So I2a1b comes from Northern Europe after all, it feels good to know that I'm not descended from some filthy wop.

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You were saying before that its Ilyrian and that EV13 was from slaves xD

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Originally Posted by Tee

You were saying before that its Ilyrian and that EV13 was from slaves xD

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I just go with the evidence man. I'm completely rational and impartial.

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Originally Posted by Xhak Bauër

Seems to be the case & it's rare nowadays in Europe.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...78d8fa6711.png

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Thracians were gypsies ?

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Originally Posted by XenophobicPrussian

A large increase of the amount of J/E in modern Balkanites and Bronze Age Balkanites clustering with N. Italians/Iberians is somehow autosomal continuity to you?

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They don't cluster with N.Italians and not even close to Iberians, wtf are you talking about? They plot like Tuscans or more farmer shifted Bulgarians. Basically where they should be given that these samples are from Bronze Age Bulgaria and Croatia. So far evidence suggests that most modern Balkans are North Euro shifted compared to the Bronze Age.

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Originally Posted by nightrider+

They don't cluster with N.Italians and not even close to Iberians, wtf are you talking about? They plot like Tuscans or more farmer shifted Bulgarians. Basically where they should be given that these samples are from Bronze Age Bulgaria and Croatia. So far evidence suggests that most modern Balkans are North Euro shifted compared to the Bronze Age.

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True, XP tries to cope with Polako's mantra who dreams of a grand medieval Polish-Turkish mix in the Balkans that makes them different from modern Iberians, Balkan_Bronze Age turns out something like ~60% Neolithic Anatolia ~40% Yamnaya which is close enough to modern South-Balkans, modern Northern-Balkans are more EHG/WHG shifted.

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So much R1b in Balkan WHGs.

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It's not so much R1b, it's specific samples from Iron Gates(Serbian-Romanian borders) but it's interesting, it's quite early in pre-history and the location is relatively close to the Steppe,may be relevant to the formation of Steppe cultures.

What is also interesting about Balkan halpogroups, it's that there is enough diversity in pre-history to justify the relatively high diversity of Balkan halpos nowadays.

WE WUZ BORREBIES

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Originally Posted by Faklon

True, XP tries to cope with Polako's mantra who dreams of a grand medieval Polish-Turkish mix in the Balkans that makes them different from modern Iberians, Balkan_Bronze Age turns out something like ~60% Neolithic Anatolia ~40% Yamnaya which is close enough to modern South-Balkans, modern Northern-Balkans are more EHG/WHG shifted.



It's not so much R1b, it's specific samples from Iron Gates(Serbian-Romanian borders) but it's interesting, it's quite early in pre-history and the location is relatively close to the Steppe,may be relevant to the formation of Steppe cultures.

What is also interesting about Balkan halpogroups, it's that there is enough diversity in pre-history to justify the relatively high diversity of Balkan halpos nowadays.

WE WUZ BORREBIES

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I take it you don't like Polako's Eurogenes calculators?

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Originally Posted by nightrider+

They don't cluster with N.Italians and not even close to Iberians, wtf are you talking about? They plot like Tuscans or more farmer shifted Bulgarians. Basically where they should be given that these samples are from Bronze Age Bulgaria and Croatia. So far evidence suggests that most modern Balkans are North Euro shifted compared to the Bronze Age.

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I agree man, I take it you are referring to South Slavic Balkans. The non-Slavic speakers remained more or less the same, perhaps except the Romanians.



LMFAO @ Balkan non-Slavs and their unconquered mountain-bastions since the Bronze Age.

Well I haven't tested myself, but I do come from a region where I2 is predominantly strong.

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Originally Posted by Bosniensis

Well I haven't tested myself, but I do come from a region where I2 is predominantly strong.

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Doesn't matter. You can be verbaly anything.
You are who you are, and the statistics have no place here.
Btw in majority cases, people have different results, as they thought, what they were.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nightrider+

They don't cluster with N.Italians and not even close to Iberians, wtf are you talking about? They plot like Tuscans or more farmer shifted Bulgarians. Basically where they should be given that these samples are from Bronze Age Bulgaria and Croatia. So far evidence suggests that most modern Balkans are North Euro shifted compared to the Bronze Age.

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Do I really have to point this out to you?

Here's a PCA with the same modern populations clearly labeled:

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal...re13673-f2.jpg

The PCA from this paper:

http://i.imgur.com/UDrLmPE.png

They clearly cluster with N. Italians(you could argue inbetween N. Italians and Tuscans I guess, and like I pointed out, 2/8 have a shift towards modern Bulgarians, but still are much closer to N. Italians).

The Malak_Preslavets samples are also early Bronze Age, they are very clearly with Iberians.

If you also combine that with this PCA has shrinkage(basically, when the ancient samples are pulled to the center when you do a PCA incorrectly with modern populations, this isn't something I just made up, look it up), all ancient samples are shifted to the center, in this case south-east, when Polako releases his PCA plot you will see this(although I'm sure you'll accuse him of fake propaganda or whatever), meaning the Bronze Age Balkanites are even more SW and cluster inbetween N. Italians and Iberians, and the early BA Malak_Preslavets would be among the most northern shifted modern Iberians. For example, the Bell Beakers aren't in the correct spot, and the HGs are much too close to modern populations(you'd think modern Balts are 90% Ukrainian_HG when looking at this), the European farmers are also way too far from Sardinians. For a PCA without shrinkage and the Bell Beakers in their proper spots, look at the PCA from the new Bell Beaker paper.

Fyi, we also already have a BA Montenegrin, clustered between Iberia/N Italy.

https://s22.postimg.org/4dr0dumoh/Mo...Poland+eng.png

I'm sure you think that's all bullshit, but even without that, they still cluster with N. Italians, not modern Balkanites/Bulgarians.

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So far evidence suggests that most modern Balkans are North Euro shifted compared to the Bronze Age.

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Believe it or not, I wasn't even trying to get at that, but no, you're wrong. Only true for Croatians/Slovenians/Bosnians. If you take any Balto-Slav or any LMBA steppe person and mix him with any of these BA Balkanites you don't arrive anywhere near Bulgarians, they aren't anywhere near that cline. You'd need the Slavs to be Yamnaya for a N. Italian/Tuscan to Bulgaria cline, and obviously they weren't, which means there is extra admixture there in modern Bulgarians.

The good news(well, it wouldn't be good news for me personally, unless I stopped denigrating Turks and other MENA populations and became a Caucasoid supremacist rather than a "white" supremacist) for you and Faklon is there's now evidence of post-neolithic Middle-Eastern migrations into Europe that seems to have the extra Natufian/CHG not present in neolithic farmers, which means your extra MENA doesn't necessarily have to come from Turks or Byzantine immigration, which in turn means you still coulda wuz ancien Greeks n shit.

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Originally Posted by Xhak Bauër

All these Gheg haplogroups... Feels good.

http://i.imgur.com/A9A7Y8m.png

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Feels good to be... Croatian???

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Originally Posted by Petros Houhoulis

Feels good to be... Croatian???

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Croatia was proto-Illyrian zone back than, it makes sense for them to paternally descend from there. In the dark ages big chunk of surviving Illyrian population retreated south/to mountains due to barbarian raids.

P.E.R. - it is in croatian? Pred Era Rożdestwa :laugh:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by XenophobicPrussian

Do I really have to point this out to you?

Here's a PCA with the same modern populations clearly labeled:

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal...re13673-f2.jpg

The PCA from this paper:

http://i.imgur.com/UDrLmPE.png

They clearly cluster with N. Italians(you could argue inbetween N. Italians and Tuscans I guess, and like I pointed out, 2/8 have a shift towards modern Bulgarians, but still are much closer to N. Italians).

The Malak_Preslavets samples are also early Bronze Age, they are very clearly with Iberians.

If you also combine that with this PCA has shrinkage(basically, when the ancient samples are pulled to the center when you do a PCA incorrectly with modern populations, this isn't something I just made up, look it up), all ancient samples are shifted to the center, in this case south-east, when Polako releases his PCA plot you will see this(although I'm sure you'll accuse him of fake propaganda or whatever), meaning the Bronze Age Balkanites are even more SW and cluster inbetween N. Italians and Iberians, and the early BA Malak_Preslavets would be among the most northern shifted modern Iberians. For example, the Bell Beakers aren't in the correct spot, and the HGs are much too close to modern populations(you'd think modern Balts are 90% Ukrainian_HG when looking at this), the European farmers are also way too far from Sardinians. For a PCA without shrinkage and the Bell Beakers in their proper spots, look at the PCA from the new Bell Beaker paper.

Fyi, we also already have a BA Montenegrin, clustered between Iberia/N Italy.

https://s22.postimg.org/4dr0dumoh/Mo...Poland+eng.png

I'm sure you think that's all bullshit, but even without that, they still cluster with N. Italians, not modern Balkanites/Bulgarians.


Believe it or not, I wasn't even trying to get at that, but no, you're wrong. Only true for Croatians/Slovenians/Bosnians. If you take any Balto-Slav or any LMBA steppe person and mix him with any of these BA Balkanites you don't arrive anywhere near Bulgarians, they aren't anywhere near that cline. You'd need the Slavs to be Yamnaya for a N. Italian/Tuscan to Bulgaria cline, and obviously they weren't, which means there is extra admixture there in modern Bulgarians.

The good news(well, it wouldn't be good news for me personally, unless I stopped denigrating Turks and other MENA populations and became a Caucasoid supremacist rather than a "white" supremacist) for you and Faklon is there's now evidence of post-neolithic Middle-Eastern migrations into Europe that seems to have the extra Natufian/CHG not present in neolithic farmers, which means your extra MENA doesn't necessarily have to come from Turks or Byzantine immigration, which in turn means you still coulda wuz ancien Greeks n shit.

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Here is a Bronze Age Dalmatian sample JAZ1. Check the number of SNPs used (less than 10 000). I have read that two ancient Montenegrin samples also had low snp count. Is 10 000 SNPs enough for confident analysis?
http://s32.postimg.org/s3yba4u6t/PCA_JAZ1.png

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

Just like it should be. Wota Fuq will be happy, he now has proof he indigenious to his homeland! :)
I just hope I2-dinaric will be finally found somwhere in European ancient samples too....so I can tell my father with 100% certanity what his origins are :D

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I don't know what is my L23 subclade. Maybe it is R1b-Z2103, maybe one of those Balkan clusters, maybe it is one of those eastern European L-23 clusters like that of Silesian, maybe not.:dunno:

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Originally Posted by Wota fuq

I don't know what is my L23 subclade. Maybe it is R1b-Z2103, maybe one of those Balkan clusters, maybe it is one of those eastern European L-23 clusters like that of Silesian, maybe not.:dunno:

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https://www.yseq.net/
You can get defining SNP for 18-20 USD. It would be cool to find out your exact branch.