Pontic Greek Gedmatch results

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Originally Posted by catgeorge

Its not that we deny it - South Slavs are not actually Slavs themselves.

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Haha, keep coping :laugh:

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Originally Posted by catgeorge

Its not that we deny it - South Slavs are not actually Slavs themselves.

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The people who invaded Greece in the middle ages would not have been like modern Bulgarians. But even today's Serbs for example are at least 50% Northeast European on average. Not to mention there are Bosniaks who are basically Ukrainian with one East Med grandparent or something like that.

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Originally Posted by SuperDorian

Yeah and only in Northern Greece realy ,there were no slavophone regions in the rest of Greece

Slavs left some admixture in Mainland Greece but they didn't have a massive impact everywhere neither did they invade or dominate whole of Greece for a long time if they would there would be no Greece today but it would be just another Balkan Slavic country like Croatia,Serbia or Bulgaria but its not

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They left significant impact, around 30% if we go by ancient samples and YDNA. But, let's wait for more early Slavic and ancient Greek samples to be more certain. :)

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Originally Posted by Leto

The people who invaded Greece in the middle ages would not have been like modern Bulgarians. But even today's Serbs for example are at least 50% Northeast European on average. Not to mention there are Bosniaks who are basically Ukrainian with one East Med grandparent or something like that.

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Correct - you dont see Avar, Kipchak type phenotypes in North Greece.

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Originally Posted by Leto

The people who invaded Greece in the middle ages would not have been like modern Bulgarians. But even today's Serbs for example are at least 50% Northeast European on average. Not to mention there are Bosniaks who are basically Ukrainian with one East Med grandparent or something like that.

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Yeah and thus very different from Mainland Greeks even the North Eastern most ones

Sorry but there was no Slavic impact in Greece as there was in Balkan Slavic countries whatever Slavs at that time exactly were it should be obvious and not even a matter of debate

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Originally Posted by catgeorge

Correct - you dont see Avar, Kipchak type phenotypes in North Greece.

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What do they have to do with Slavs?

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Originally Posted by Est.1992

They left significant impact, around 30% if we go by ancient samples and YDNA. But, let's wait for more early Slavic and ancient Greek samples to be more certain. :)

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We barely get 7% EE and our samples that are shared with other Balkan people are generally at least 1000 years older.

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Originally Posted by Leto

What do they have to do with Slavs?

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Because thats one of their main phenotypes. Like it or not. Thats a recent input in the Balkans from Slavo-Avar invasions.

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Originally Posted by Est.1992

They left significant impact, around 30% if we go by ancient samples and YDNA. But, let's wait for more early Slavic and ancient Greek samples to be more certain. :)

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Around 30% is exagerated not even in the parts of North Greece with higher Slavic

In Pelponnese its at best 14% or lower

You should go to Greece and visit once to constate that in crowds Greeks almost never look like Slavs
not even like Croatians,Serbs or Bulgarians who still feel more similar to us than other Slavic groups

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Originally Posted by catgeorge

We barely get 7% EE and our samples that are shared with other Balkan people are generally at least 1000 years older.

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Please. I can't discuss with person who thinks Balkan on 23andme equals Paleo-Balkan xD
You have G25 with ancient samples, sorry.

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Originally Posted by Est.1992

Please. I can't discuss with person who thinks Balkan on 23andme equals Paleo-Balkan xD
You have G25 with ancient samples, sorry.

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Just research y-full and shut up with your pan-slavism already. Greeks don't carry turanid type phenotypes that Vojnik for example carries.

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Originally Posted by catgeorge

Because thats one of their main phenotypes. Like it or not. Thats a recent input in the Balkans from Slavo-Avar invasions.

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Kipchaks and Avars were Central Asian/Eurasian peoples, they weren't Slavs. Are you one of those Med supremacists who hate everything North of Greece? Even if other Orthodox nations. Remember Russia used to be viewed as the Third Rome after Byzantium fell apart.
I am a practicing Orthodox myself.

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Originally Posted by SuperDorian

Around 30% is exagerated not even in the parts of North Greece with higher Slavic

In Pelponnese its at best 14% or lower

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You're right it's lower. But, this show mainland Greeks more Paleo-Balkan than Greco-Roman genetically.
Check it out, using ancient samples only:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...ic-scale/page3

Target: Greek_Thrace
Distance: 3.3719% / 0.03371884 | ADC: 0.25x

42.8 Balkan
29.4 Greco-Roman
27.8 Slavic

Target: Greek_Central_Macedonia
Distance: 1.2254% / 0.01225401 | ADC: 0.25x

48.2 Balkan
29.4 Greco-Roman
22.4 Slavic

Target: Albanian
Distance: 1.3211% / 0.01321126 | ADC: 0.25x

61.2 Balkan
19.6 Greco-Roman
19.2 Slavic

Target: Greek_Thessaly
Distance: 1.0292% / 0.01029166 | ADC: 0.25x

58.6 Balkan
30.6 Greco-Roman
10.8 Slavic

Target: Greek_Izmir
Distance: 1.0765% / 0.01076521 | ADC: 0.25x

53.0 Greco-Roman
37.0 Balkan
9.2 Slavic
0.8 Baltic

Target: Greek_Crete
Distance: 1.0445% / 0.01044522 | ADC: 0.25x

91.6 Greco-Roman
7.2 Slavic
1.2 Baltic

Target: Greek_Peloponnese
Distance: 1.4910% / 0.01491038 | ADC: 0.25x

59.0 Balkan
36.2 Greco-Roman
4.8 Baltic

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Originally Posted by Leto

Kipchaks and Avars were Central Asian/Eurasian peoples, they weren't Slavs. Are you one of those Med supremacists who hate everything North of Greece? Even if other Orthodox nations. Remember Russia used to be viewed as the Third Rome after Byzantium fell apart.
I am a practicing Orthodox myself.

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Then why all the Turanid phenotypes but somehow didnt make it into Greece?

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Originally Posted by catgeorge

Just research y-full and shut up with your pan-slavism already. Greeks don't carry turanid type phenotypes that Vojnik for example carries.

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Vojnik looks Greek to me, lol. He is dinaro-med.

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Originally Posted by Est.1992

Please. I can't discuss with person who thinks Balkan on 23andme equals Paleo-Balkan xD
You have G25 with ancient samples, sorry.

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Sorry but majority of Greeks ancestry is a mix of Paleolithic Mainland Greek(what probably is counted as Paleobalkan and shared with people such as Albos) and Neolithic Greek,Aegean,Anatolian.

Its also wrong what the other Greek poster said that Ancient Greeks were almost exclusivly Neolithic they were a mix of Paleolithic and Neolithic plus some Steppe/Yamnaya admixture from the Bronze Age and than on but relativly low in quantity

Sub :thumb001:

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Originally Posted by Est.1992

Vojnik looks Greek to me, lol. He is dinaro-med.

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He looks Avar Kipchak to me no where near north Greek. He would be seen as a Slav.

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Originally Posted by SuperDorian

Sorry but majority of Greeks ancestry is a mix of Paleolithic Mainland Greek(what probably is counted as Paleobalkan and shared with people such as Albos) and Neolithic Greek,Aegean,Anatolian.

Its also wrong what the other Greek poster said that Ancient Greeks were almost exclusivly Neolithic they were a mix of Paleolithic and Neolithic
plus some Steppe/Yamnaya admixture from the Bronze Age and than on but relativly low in quantity

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Ok, now post models using ancient samples like I do to support your claims. Talking without any evidence is meaningless.

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Originally Posted by catgeorge

Then why all the Turanid phenotypes but somehow didnt make it into Greece?

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I don't know much about taxonomy because I consider it bullshit for the most part but Mongoloid admixture is very low in Bulgaria and North Macedonia, 1% at most.

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Originally Posted by AncientGreek

About language and culture - the people who moved into Greece were not 100% Slavs. They were our northern neighbours who already had some Slavic admixture, AKA south Slavs. You seem to think they are the same as a Ukrainian or something, but they're not. The admixture is similar to ours but lacking the Kura-Araxes as I showed before, now you need to stop coming up with conspiracy theories - mainland Greece was never isolated like Iceland so I'm not sure why you're making a comparison.

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that's not true, they certainly had assimilated some natives of southern Balkans but the fact that several latin speaking cities (like tauresium) still existed in Balkan countries when Slavs invaded Greece shows that those slavs who invaded Greece were likely closer to proto-Slavs than modern south Slavic people are to proto-slavs.

as for the maps, the first is wrong, considering that Eastern Peloponnese wasn't occupied by Slavs (not that Slavs didn't emigrate there, they did but they didn't occupy the place) at the same time that the part of Epirus which has the most slavic toponyms in Greece is shown as "slavic-less"

Anyway, I think people always mention slavic admixture in Greece but usually forget "gasmuloi" of frankish era, who likely also brought some more steppe admixture

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Originally Posted by Leto

I don't know much about taxonomy because I consider it bullshit for the most part but Mongoloid admixture is very low in Bulgaria and North Macedonia, 1% at most.

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Nonsense.

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Originally Posted by catgeorge

Nonsense.

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Prove me wrong, show some samples. There are plenty of Bulgarians and North Macedonians on Gedmatch and G25, there are specific threads about them here. That data proves me right, though I don't even have an agenda here 'cause I'm not a Balkan Slav, they aren't my people.

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Originally Posted by Leto

Prove me wrong, show some samples. There are plenty of Bulgarians and North Macedonians on Gedmatch and G25, there are specific threads about them here. That data proves me right, though I don't even have an agenda here 'cause I'm not a Balkan Slav, they aren't my people.

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Im not going to post the same example over and over again. South Slavs have Slavo-Avar Turanid input that North Greeks dont have. End.

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Originally Posted by AncientGreek

Slavs never made it to Dodecanese obviously, but overtime mainland Greeks brought Steppe admixture over here. I mean, I don't see why they wanted to come here, but a few did obviously :p.

Anyways, somebody more knowledgeable than me needs to explain how the Kura-Araxes admixture of ancient Greeks disappeared and how the steppe (Yamnaya) magically increased:

https://imgur.com/NhRFzY6.png

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for the record, Mycaeneans weren't even settled in Thessaly and Macedonia, let alone Thrace, meanwhile Peloponnese (part of mainland) has some Kura-Araxes, not significantly lower than the second mycaenean sample.

We need ancient samples from these northern parts of Greece to make a conclusion. On the other hand considering that 3 out of 4 Mycaenean samples have less of this admixture than Kos does, you do realize that Kos has additional native pre-greek admixture that did not exist among ancient mainlanders

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Originally Posted by Est.1992

Ok, now post models using ancient samples like I do to support your claims. Talking without any evidence is meaningless.

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My evidence is what studies have been made until now about Greek genetics that don't attest an enormous impact of Slavs
or 30% Slav genes in Greece the fact that Greeks resemble about 70% the Mycanaeans and are closest modern populations along with Italians,Albos,Cypriots

Also the paper on Balto Slav genetics which you yourself referred to in the past and which groups Greeks far away from
Slavic people outside the Balkan and Balts and also marks a clear separation between Balkanic Slavs and Greeks


And what i see and what i see when i'm in Greece is not Slavic looking people the phenotype of Greeks in crowds even for Mainland Greeks feels very different from any Slavic ethnic they simply don't look like Slavs as a whole ,every idiot can go to Greece and can see that for himself i have no reason to lie,people here can claim whatever they want it doesn't change it

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Originally Posted by catgeorge

Im not going to post the same example over and over again. South Slavs have Slavo-Avar Turanid input that North Greeks dont have. End.

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Okay but that's a load of crap in my opinion. Slavic people are light with light hair and blue-gray eyes. Exactly what I look like. So if anything, Slavic influence would result in a higher frequency of Northern phenotypes and not "Turanid".
Slavs are more acceptable in international White Nationalist circles than Greeks and that is not my opinion or a jab at you whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by Leto

Okay but that's a load of crap in my opinion. Slavic people are light with light hair and blue-gray eyes. Exactly what I look like. So if anything, Slavic influence would result in a higher frequency of Northern phenotypes and not "Turanid".
Slavs are more acceptable in international White Nationalist circles than Greeks and that is not my opinion or a jab at you whatsoever.

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I don't care what White Nationalist accept - Slavo-Avar Turanid input is non existent in Greek phenotypes.

West Asian Caucasian sure
East Med Mediterranean sure

Slavo-Avar Turanid and Turk - get the fuck out.

Unfortunately, 95% of the people here are absolutely retarded, and come up with their own baseless numbers for Slavic admixture in Greece. If you want to get an accurate picture of the aforementioned admixture, using G25 would be your best bet. Below is a simple and precise model that works for mainland Greeks, using Slovakians as the group representing early Slavs. The addition of Syrian represents near eastern admixture that entered Greece. I am using them because I am suspecting that the original group were Greek speaking Christians from the Antioch area. UKR_Cimmerian represents any post Mycenaean native Balkan like stuff (Illyrian, Thracian, Dorian)

[1] "distance%=1.6568"

Greek_Central_Macedonia

Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2,49.2
Slovakian,38.4
UKR_Cimmerian,10.8
Pulliyar,1.6

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Originally Posted by Coolguy1

Unfortunately, 95% of the people here are absolutely retarded, and come up with their own baseless numbers for Slavic admixture in Greece. If you want to get an accurate picture of the aforementioned admixture, using G25 would be your best bet. Below is a simple and precise model that works for mainland Greeks, using Slovakians as the group representing early Slavs. The addition of Syrian represents near eastern admixture that entered Greece. I am using them because I am suspecting that the original group were Greek speaking Christians from the Antioch area. UKR_Cimmerian represents any post Mycenaean native Balkan like stuff (Illyrian, Thracian, Dorian)

[1] "distance%=1.6568"

Greek_Central_Macedonia

Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2,49.2
Slovakian,38.4
UKR_Cimmerian,10.8
Pulliyar,1.6

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Anyone can use models to suit their own outcomes, which is quite retarded.

https://i.imgur.com/xz3AZ23.png

I'm too dumb somebody help my brain cells

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Originally Posted by catgeorge

Anyone can use models to suit their own outcomes, which is quite retarded.

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No, a model has to fit statistically. The model above does exactly that. The fit is tight and it corresponds nicely with history. Most of what you and others post here comes straight out of your ass.

Above example show South Slavs are no where near Polish and Ukranian samples so they are Greek shifted as Greek cluster is firmly within the Italian cluster.

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Originally Posted by Leto

Prove me wrong, show some samples. There are plenty of Bulgarians and North Macedonians on Gedmatch and G25, there are specific threads about them here. That data proves me right, though I don't even have an agenda here 'cause I'm not a Balkan Slav, they aren't my people.

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Sorry but the purpose this thread was for was not to be invaded another time by TA Slavs at this time
it would be cool if you simply stop posting here let Greeks amongst each other discuss these matters

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Originally Posted by Coolguy1

No, a model has to fit statistically. The model above does exactly that. The fit is tight and it corresponds nicely with history.

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Corresponds nicely with your view on the world.

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Originally Posted by catgeorge

Corresponds nicely with your view on the world.

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I guess the thousands of Slavic placenames in Greece just sprung up out of nowhere?

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Originally Posted by catgeorge

Corresponds nicely with your view on the world.

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Double post

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Originally Posted by brennus dux gallorum

for the record, Mycaeneans weren't even settled in Thessaly and Macedonia, let alone Thrace, meanwhile Peloponnese (part of mainland) has some Kura-Araxes, not significantly lower than the second mycaenean sample.

We need ancient samples from these northern parts of Greece to make a conclusion. On the other hand considering that 3 out of 4 Mycaenean samples have less of this admixture than Kos does, you do realize that Kos has additional native pre-greek admixture that did not exist among ancient mainlanders

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The model isn't perfect so for some reason the Kura-Araxes admixure of I9010 is going into Iran_N and Levant_N instead. Kos are one of the most west Asian shifted out of all Greek islanders so of course them having elevated levels is not weird. I am not claiming that Dodecanese islanders are not shifted in different ways, they are mixed with Anatolians who might have resembled somethng like Cypriots but with less Levantine. Cretans are the ones that most resemble the original admixture (ignoring Calabrians, who could just be most similar through chance) but they also too are shifted with extra Steppe. Truth is, none of this matters, I just feel like some people here are claiming that ancient Greeks are super north shifted when they aren't. Also, the only haplogroups we found from ancient Greeks were J2 and G2, correct? We don't have many samples to go off, but when do you think E-V13 became the dominant haplogroup of mainlander Greeks?

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Originally Posted by SuperDorian

Sorry but the purpose this thread was for was not to be invaded another time by TA Slavs at this time
it would be cool if you simply stop posting here let Greeks amongst each other discuss these matters

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Okay, I agree with you.