German GEDmatch results

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Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

in her modelling, Baltic is prefered to Slavic (that's probably the reason for her similarity to the Swedes), however Saami is much lower that the Swedish average, and within a normal level for the South Baltic coast.

Target: rothaer_wife2_scaled
Distance: 2.0710% / 0.02070996
66.6 Irish
27.2 Latvian
5.6 Ukrainian_Zhytomyr
0.6 Saami

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I agree.

Her result is not that far from what you posted above for Swedes.:

Swedish 0.00956413

74.7 Irish
21.8 Latvian
1.3 Ukrainian_Zhytomyr
2.2 Saami

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rothaer

Das dürfte zwanglos erklären, warum ich gegen eine Integration :picard2: bin und auch stets war.

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Deutschland hat eine Menge Ost- und Südosteuropäer. Viele leben im Lande schon seit Jahrzehnten und sind deutsche Staatsbürger. Bist du auch gegen ihre Assimilation als Deutsche? Ich glaube die heutige deutsche Gesellschaft ist leider viel zu vielfältig und überfremdet, um je wieder rein deutsch zu werden. Die AfD, obwohl oft als eine rasstische und rechtsextreme Partei abgestempelt, ist nicht prinzipiell gegen jede Einwanderung. Sogar die Identitären sind nicht gegen andere Europäer. Nur Moslems und Neger sind ein Problem für sie.
Übrigens hast du eine Menge Slawenblut, also nicht vollständig westeuropäisch.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stearsolina

That Brandenburg result is heavy outlier, but fully native there and has only German names in last 200 years if not more! That why it important to keep it, likely one smaller entire area of that state plots like that (to get such results with such continuity there must mean other people/Germans around were genetically like that as well).

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Bezkow (Beeskow) is a town in Lusatia, Niederlausitz.

You can see it just a bit south of Frankfurt in this map:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...%C5%BEicko.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stearsolina

Btw Davidski uses that sample as example of Sorb, and that person isn't Sorb at all. It has only German names in family tree.

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Marianne is a culturally germanized Sorb, that's what her son claimed.

And what are these "only German names in last 200 years"?

There is no GEDCOM for this kit, so how did you check the names?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Leto

(...)Bist du auch gegen ihre Assimilation als Deutsche?(...)

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Ja. Ich bin der Meinung, daß die Identität sich auf die Volkszugehörigkeit bezieht mit allem, was dazu gehört, und demgemäß viel enger ist, als daß man lediglich nicht Neger oder nicht Moslem sei. Da ich in einem unfreien Land lebe, kann ich mich hier nicht frei äußern und will das daher nicht weiter vertiefen.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Leto

Übrigens hast du eine Menge Slawenblut, also nicht vollständig westeuropäisch.

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Vollkommen richtig. Das Letzere habe ich auch nie behauptet. Ich bin Deutscher.

"Only German names" LOL. :picard1: Have you checked the etymology?:

https://www.janecke.name/angaben-zu-...amiliennamen/m

Mietchen. Niederlausitz. Miet Sorbisch) werfen, fortwerfen ... Speer ... im Kampf: Mietislaw - ein slaw. Vorname, dazu -chen als dteutsche Verkosung.

Mietusch. Sorb. / wendisch. Kosef., Miet von Meti + slaw = schleudern (den Speer + Ruhm)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tomenable

"Only German names" LOL. :picard1: Have you checked the etymology?:

https://www.janecke.name/angaben-zu-...amiliennamen/m

Mietchen. Niederlausitz. Miet Sorbisch) werfen, fortwerfen ... Speer ... im Kampf: Mietislaw - ein slaw. Vorname, dazu -chen als dteutsche Verkosung.

Mietusch. Sorb. / wendisch. Kosef., Miet von Meti + slaw = schleudern (den Speer + Ruhm)
It is a surname of Sorbian origin, only slightly germanized (-chen).

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A German name is something else than an etymologically German name. What is an etymologically German name, is clear. And a German name is a name that is used by ethnic Germans and that by its form unveils German language. So Kubicki is a Polish name and Kubitzki is a German name. Like Schultz is German and Szulc is Polish. And Mietchen is a German name, as it is obviously in a German language form.

Stearsolina, to whom you address your criticism, has not checked a pedigree but I told her that the individual in question has done ancestry research and that there is no sign for any ancestor having a Sorabian and not a German ethnicity the last 200 years, which is as far back as her known ancestry at least reaches (information from her son).

That you then in your obsessive way pursuaded the son to adept your insinuations and interpret the genetic result of his mother to be no German (!), and that you then quote him for confirmation, while he essentially just quotes you, is a perversion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tomenable

Marianne is a culturally germanized Sorb, that's what her son claimed.

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This is so hypocritical that I lack words for it.

It was me that first told you this kit (on 21st of November 2018) and I spoke to the son a lot before you edited him and at that time, while he well knew the genetic results, he had no other view than his mother being a German.

And your intention to declare the DNA kit of an ethnic German for being the kit of an ethnic Sorb (while there are ethnic Sorbs) and forward it to Davidski with this non applicable information as a reference for Sorbs imo is even scientifically fraudulent.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rothaer

That you then in your obsessive way pursuaded the poor son to adept your insinuations and interpret the genetic result of his mother to be no German (!), and that you then quote him for confirmation, while he essentially just quotes you, is a perversion.

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I did not persuade him to say that his mother is a Sorb. I told him that her results in GEDmatch calculators indicate similarity to academic Oberlausitz Sorbs from the Harvard's Human Origins dataset. He replied - "her ancestors came from the Niederlausitz from a small area around Beeskow since hundreds of years, and hence she is a Sorb but the culture of the Sorbs in this area has been suppressed since the German annexation."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rothaer

and at that time he had no other view than his mother being a German.

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And you guys were looking for a Red Army ancestor to explain her DNA results... :picard1:

Basically the glasses were all the time on his nose, but he couldn't find his glasses.

Maybe he properly did his research on the history of Niederlausitz region later on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rothaer

There is no notable recent Swedish input due to history. This is all in church record times, so it is well assessable. The administrational language as well as the court and the responsible high court language was German while the Swedish rule.

But many German families came to Sweden while this period of Swedish rule in Pomerania.

Swedes may have some lower level Balto-Slavic input, but not comparable to that of Northern Germans in the Baltic Sea area. But they do have some Finnish and Sami and alike input, both from somewhat recent times from 16th century on as well as from so called South Sami that may have mingled somewhat into the Swea tribe in Central Sweden. Tellingly I often get Sweden_Sami as close pops in Eurogenes calculators with less components.

See also my answer to vbnetkhio on this topic and feel free to try the G25 coords posted there.

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Global25 has few averages, if there were more other regions would probably be closer. There is a superficial closeness with Sweden because both of you are essentially on a cline between a northwestern population and a more eastern one (Baltic and Finnish in the case of Sweden and Balto-Slavic in the case of East Germany).

Target: rothaer_scaled
Distance: 0.0135% / 0.01348853 | R2P
59.1 Welsh
40.9 Russian_Pskov

Target: rothaer_wife2_scaled
Distance: 0.0178% / 0.01781513 | R2P
76.5 Danish
23.5 Lithuanian_VA

Target: rothaer_wife2_scaled
Distance: 0.0191% / 0.01908691 | R2P
72.6 Icelandic
27.4 Lithuanian_VA

Target: Swedish
Distance: 0.0066% / 0.00662055 | R2P
82.9 Danish
17.1 Finnish_Central

Target: Swedish
Distance: 0.0089% / 0.00886372 | R2P
82.5 Icelandic
17.5 Lithuanian_VA

https://i.imgur.com/B5REtHq.png

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rothaer

Vollkommen richtig. Das Letzere habe ich auch nie behauptet. Ich bin Deutscher. Warum sollte ich "vollständig westeuropäisch" sein oder sein wollen?

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Der NS war dezidiert antirussisch bzw. antislawisch. Heute haben einige Leute ein falsches Verständnis vom historischen NS und glauben die seien einfach "weiße Nationalisten" gewesen (und rotgepillt zur J-Frage). Aber in Wirklichkeit waren sie eher deutsche/germanische Suprematisten. Das Slawentum wird oftmals mit dem Russentum assoziiert und nach dem NS und einigen anderen westlichen Rassentheoretikern sind die Russen ein Bastardenvolk, eine Mongolenhorde oder so was ähnliches. Die Deutschen hingegen verstehen sich als ein westliches Volk, unverwandt mit dem östlichen Barbarentum. Deshalb trollte ich dich als einen partiellen Slawen.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rothaer

(while there are ethnic Sorbs)

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AFAIK, Lower Sorbs are pretty much all germanized by now. Only Upper Sorbs still survive in larger numbers.

You know, most of the Irish can no longer speak Irish, but nobody sane will use their DNA as English references.

And you are suggesting to use a genetically pure Lower Sorb who just lost her language, as a German reference.

As Leto noticed now this "Brandenburg_outlier" will show up in models for a lot of Eastern Europeans as their supposed "German" ancestry. For example I can be modelled as "German_Brandenburg_outlier" plus Dutch, because I'm more western-shifted than this sample.

BTW you know very well that Beeskow is in the region of Niederlausitz, but you called it "German_Brandenburg_outlier".

You could at least call it "German_Niederlausitz" (and probably not such an outlier for local Germans from Niederlausitz).

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BTW, all of academic Sorbian samples are Upper Sorbs from one town, Kamenz:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamenz