Indigenous Balkan I2a1 in southern Albania

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Originally Posted by Trojet

:picard2:
Are you serious? Those are not ancient samples, rather from living humans collected from those sites.



Hahahahaha. It's like me saulying, hey I am J2-M172 and my clade is 27800 years old (without revealing that further dowsntream I'm also M172>M102>M241>L283>etc...)

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Catgeorge gets the El-Retardo award. :cool:

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Originally Posted by catgeorge

Not entirely convinced - Dalmatia has the highest I2a1 (55%) in the world where Republic of Ragusa was loosely Slavonic (Italian was the official language until 1808)

The Ragusan archives document, Speculum Maioris Consilii Rectores, lists all the persons that were involved in the Republic's government between September 1440 to January 1808. There were 4397 rectors elected; 2764 (63%) were from "old patrician" families: Gozze, Bona, Caboga, Cerva, Ghetaldi, Giorgi, Gradi, Pozza, Saraca, Sorgo, and Zamanya.

in the 17th century, 50% of the dukes and senators were from the following families: Bona, Gondola, Gozze, Menze, Sorgo.
in the 18th century, 56% of senators were from these families: Sorgo, Gozze, Zananya, Caboga, Giorgi.
in the last eight years of the Republic, 50% of dukes were from the Sorgo, Gozze, Gradi, Bona, or Ragnina families.

So how could Dalmatia have the highest frequency of I2a1 with the highest frequency of Latinic input?

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Founder effect. At least that is the case with similar Slovenian population., who show close relationship with Western Slavic groups (Poles, Slovaks)

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Conclusion: Analysis of Y-chromosomal markers in five Slovenian regions revealed a diverse genetic landscape. Slovenian population display close genetic affiliations with West Slavic populations. The homogenous genetic strata of the West Slavic populations and the Slovenian population suggest the existence of a common ancestral Slavic population in central European region.

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Originally Posted by Dema

Hercegovina has 70% I2a1b, then Muslim Bosnjaks go, and then maybe Dalmatia but i doubt that it las 55% as you say, i would say maybe little less..

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I am not talking about I2a1b I know thats the slavic subclade I am talking about I2a1 - Bosnians have 54% I2a1

Croatia mainland has 32% I2a1 some 30% less than Dalmatians -- neither M423 is Slavic nor carried by Slavic speakers as dopey points out as this is also found in Great Britain.

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Originally Posted by Scholarios Chiotis

Founder effect. At least that is the case with similar Slovenian population., who show close relationship with Western Slavic groups (Poles, Slovaks)

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Not buying it - Ireland has some 5-10% I2a1 M423

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Originally Posted by catgeorge

Not buying it - Ireland has some 5-10% I2a1 M423

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ha, more like 2-3% across all of British Isles, basically at a rate same as J1 in Denmark lol. C'mon Yorgaki, bro, let's be serious.

I2a1-L621 is a subclade of M423. Isn't that the subclade in discussion?

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Originally Posted by Scholarios Chiotis

ha, more like 2-3% across all of British Isles, basically at a rate same as J1 in Denmark lol. C'mon Yorgaki, bro, let's be serious.

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Depends on the sources I guess

https://i.imgsafe.org/b7e61d223c.png

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Originally Posted by catgeorge

Not buying it - Ireland has some 5-10% I2a1 M423

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And how much of it belongs in the Dinaric (L621>CTS10228) subclade???

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Originally Posted by Trojet

And how much of it belongs in the Dinaric (L621>CTS10228) subclade???

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ZERO

..and exactly my point that dopey is trying to make that all I2a1 is I2a-Din

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Originally Posted by catgeorge

ZERO

..and exactly my point that dopey is trying to make that all I2a1 is I2a-Din

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Well Balkan I2a1 almost all of it falls in the said subclade.... Therefore you can't really say they are the same, as the TMRCA of I-M423 is 13,700 ybp.