Post Eurogenes K13 - Fresh thread -

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Originally Posted by Leto

He didn't include them into anything, he just ran them through the program and then added to a spreadsheet.

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Don't you follow?

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Originally Posted by Creoda

Thanks Feiichy but the Dutch averages are created mostly from academic samples that Peterski sent me, along with some kits I've collected :thumb001:

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Originally Posted by Leto

No, the Dutch samples are academic, Piotr uploaded them. And they are quite fishy, some were like 2-3% SSA and/or East Asian. For Dodecad I had to eliminate nearly half of them for said reasons. So D K12b doesn't have Dutch_North and South, only one Dutch average.

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I don't think they're fishy but they're too low res, leading to weird non-Euro scores, so I had to remove 42 or so with too much non-Euro by my judgment. But as you see can the averages still have a little too much, that'll be eliminated with more real kits. Overall the averages are pretty solid, more importantly they're better than the old ones. The old South Dutch was too Southern shifted, more like score of Belgians.

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Originally Posted by J.S.

Distance to: J.S.(French)
6.52469923 French
7.60161167 France_south
8.24820587 France_Central
8.91601368 Southwest_French
9.46554277 Spanish_Cantabria
9.71231177 Spanish_Cataluna
10.38442102 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
10.87896594 France_north-east
11.25215535 Spanish_Galicia
11.28945969 Spanish_Aragon
11.37175888 Pennsylvania_Dutch
11.50466862 Spanish
11.62449139 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
11.97215937 Italian_Aosta_Valley
12.00908823 France_south-west
12.15744628 Spanish_Valencia
12.19465457 Belgian
12.20428204 Portuguese
12.30683956 France_north-west
12.57774622 Spanish_Murcia
12.61691325 Swiss_German2
12.66334079 Flemish
12.85152131 Dutch_South
13.32647740 German_South
13.44856870 Swiss_German


Target: J.S.(French)
Distance: 2.1378% / 2.13778665
35.3 French_Basque
35.3 Swedish
22.7 Spanish_Aragon
3.3 Swiss_Italian
3.3 Yemenite_Jewish
0.1 Papuan


Target: J.S.(French)
Distance: 2.6618% / 2.66181095 | ADC: 0.25x RC
36.9 Dutch_Central
26.6 Spanish_Aragon
22.7 France_south-west
13.8 Southwest_French

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Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 47.38
2 West_Med 23.99
3 Baltic 15.95
4 East_Med 7.55
5 Red_Sea 2.78


Using 4 populations approximation:
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1 French_Basque + North_Swedish + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 3.062119
2 French + French_Basque + Spanish_Aragon + Swedish @ 3.069512
3 French_Basque + North_Swedish + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.156298
4 French + French_Basque + Norwegian + Spanish_Aragon @ 3.214273
5 French + French_Basque + Southeast_English + Southwest_French @ 3.236362. probably the more accurate
6 French + French_Basque + Southeast_English + Spanish_Galicia @ 3.246606
7 French + French_Basque + Southeast_English + Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.262996
8 French + French_Basque + Southeast_English + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 3.266667
9 French_Basque + North_Swedish + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Aragon @ 3.270608
10 French + French_Basque + Orcadian + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 3.279502
11 French_Basque + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Swedish @ 3.281378
12 French + French_Basque + North_Dutch + Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.283484
13 French + French_Basque + Orcadian + Spanish_Galicia @ 3.289010
14 French + French_Basque + North_Dutch + Spanish_Aragon @ 3.293594
15 Danish + French + French_Basque + Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.295177
16 Danish + French + French_Basque + Spanish_Aragon @ 3.304563
17 French + French_Basque + Southwest_English + Spanish_Galicia @ 3.318936
18 French_Basque + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Cataluna + Swedish @ 3.319821
19 French_Basque + Spanish_Cantabria + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Swedish @ 3.325228
20 French_Basque + North_Swedish + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.329747

Latvian on K13 looks bit drifted compared to Lithuanian/Estonian. I don't know is that normal, it looks like you expect otherwise but somehow such distances towards neighbours suprise me, considering there are no natural barriers in that small region.

Distance to: Latvian

5.26434231 Lithuanian
10.18215596 Belarusian_Minsk
10.24887799 Estonian
10.39410410 Belorussian
11.19739255 Russian_Smolensk
11.62074008 Russian_Kostroma
11.68404468 Russian_Northern_Dvina
12.06270285 Russian_Kargopol
12.16157884 Russian_average
12.29722326 East_Finnish
13.26298986 Russian_Southwest
13.63084003 Ukrainian_Belgorod
13.72548360 Mordovian
14.15416546 Finnish
14.58739524 Polish
14.88763245 Ukrainian
15.09202770 Polish_Kielce
16.15092567 Polish_Masuria
18.69645688 South_Polish
19.35460410 Southwest_Finnish
19.75391354 Sorb_Lusatia
20.11712206 Moldova_Ukrainian
21.04457887 Ukrainian_Galicia
23.59879446 Ukrainian_Carpathian
23.96933249 Slovak

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Originally Posted by Creoda

I don't think they're fishy but they're too low res, leading to weird non-Euro scores, so I had to remove 42 or so with too much non-Euro by my judgment. But as you see can the averages still have a little too much, that'll be eliminated with more real kits. Overall the averages are pretty solid, more importantly they're better than the old ones. The old South Dutch was too Southern shifted, more like score of Belgians.

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What are you basing this conclusion on, that S.Dutch was too southern shifted? it was somewhere between West Germans and England, that sounds normal to me.
I don't know who did this exactly but this is crazy. If let's say, i would find the northern Greece sample too south, im gonna take an Albanian sample and rename it north Greece. That's insane and not a scientific method, especially as they were legit acamedic samples in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Stearsolina

By the way, with which company did you test? I noticed new versions of Myheritage and 23andme have eastern pull due to lower snp count.

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23andme with a V5.9 update.

I'm thinking about ordering an AncestryDNA and comparing them.

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Originally Posted by Sharpshooter

23andme with a V5.9 update.

I'm thinking about ordering an AncestryDNA and comparing them.

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Than I def. think V5 chip pulled you east (MyHeritage did same to me compared to other test with more snps). Ancestry is good option, but you can try to convert your 23andme raw data to V3 as well (V3 is more reliable).

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Originally Posted by Petalpusher

What are you basing this conclusion on, that S.Dutch was too southern shifted? it was somewhere between West Germans and England, that sounds normal to me.
I don't know who did this exactly but this is crazy. If let's say, i would find the northern Greece sample too south, im gonna take an Albanian sample and rename it north Greece. That's insane and not a scientific method, especially as they were legit acamedic samples in the first place.

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I'm basing it on results from collected kits, and common sense.

Gedmatch South Dutch average:
South_Dutch,44.59,22.22,15.74,6.01,7.37,1.47,1.05, 0.20,0.84,0.24,0.02,0.09,0.16

Mixed Belgian average from 20 collected kits:
Belgian,45.18,22.39,15.38,5.53,7.38,1.24,0.92,0.25 ,0.11,0.55,0.45,0.39,0.15

New Dutch South average:
Dutch_South,45.99,23.41,15.11,5.15,5.60,1.30,1.03, 0.36,0.54,0.52,0.29,0.34,0.30

As you can see the old South Dutch average is more Southern than the collected Belgian kits, that's not normal!

I don't know what you're on about with the rest.

Also the Eurogenes Southeast and Southwest English, and Irish averages were pretty inaccurate too. Whether or not they were academic (I doubt the Irish one was), they were just wrong.

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Originally Posted by Stearsolina

Latvian on K13 looks bit drifted compared to Lithuanian/Estonian. I don't know is that normal, it looks like you expect otherwise but somehow such distances towards neighbours suprise me, considering there are no natural barriers in that small region.

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The Lithuanian and Estonian are both from the original spreadsheet whereas the Latvian was added by someone. Some Baltic individuals can score 60% Baltic but some Lithuanians are only in the low 50s. For Dodecad I found a few kits with Lithuanian and Latvian names and used them for the averages.