Southeast England was 80% replaced by Anglo-Saxons in the Early Middle Ages

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Originally Posted by Creoda

Well, obviously not compared to Gaul, but they were the most Romanised parts of Britain, which also coincides with them being the areas of Britain with most Hallstatt/La Tene influence.

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Roman Empire: Italian Peninsula, Iberian Peninsula and Islands
galia is a periphery!

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Originally Posted by Creoda

Well, obviously not compared to Gaul, but they were the most Romanised parts of Britain, which also coincides with them being the areas of Britain with most Hallstatt/La Tene influence.

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Roman Empire: Italian Peninsula, Iberian Peninsula and Islands
galia is a periphery!

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Originally Posted by Creoda

You maybe right, the urban population of Roman Britain was a smaller percentage than I initially thought, about 0.25 million out of 3.6 million, so roughly 4-5%, and of that, most would have been native Britons.

There's still 5-6% of English y-dna that is J2 or E1b, a lot of that might come from the Roman period. Either way the Roman genetic influence is certainly very small.

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Well considering all the facts i stated previously, i think that we should rather look at Mtdna of Roman britons, as it should've had better preservance.

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Originally Posted by David Johnson

And why does it make sense to model the Irish with Anglo-Saxon samples? Anglo-Saxons aren't a source population of the modern Irish. You should use populations that make historical and genealogical sense when modelling, not just chase the lowest distance possible. Irish are more steppe shifted than the English and the Anglo-Saxon samples are very steppe shifted, hence why they are artificially closer.

You can model English on the G25 as a north germanic, south-west Euro 80/20 mix. For example.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...61/unknown.png

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Modelling the English as 18% Italian doesn't make sense either. The English are more EEF than the Anglo-Saxons, that's why Global25 has selected and inflated a source that has much more like Italian_Lombardy but they are not necessarily descended from it. However, I agree that greater proximity to the Anglo-Saxons does not imply descending directly from them.

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Originally Posted by Peterski

These "80% replaced" Anglo-Saxons when uploaded to GEDmatch, they will be close to modern Scandinavians, North Dutch and North Germans.

Not to modern South-East English.

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This is a PCA I made using Eurogenes K13. As you can see, the English are mostly pre-Anglo-Saxon and it is therefore unlikely that (on average) they are 80% Anglo-Saxon.
The brown dots: English samples (Romans and Iron Age) ranging from 200 BC to 200 AD.
The blue dots: English samples (Anglo-Saxon) ranging from 460 to 785 AD.

https://i.imgur.com/E7kww9A.png

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Originally Posted by Pulkher

Modelling the English as 18% Italian doesn't make sense either. The English are more EEF than the Anglo-Saxons, that's why Global25 has selected and inflated a source that has much more like Italian_Lombardy but they are not necessarily descended from it. However, I agree that greater proximity to the Anglo-Saxons does not imply descending directly from them.

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I'm not claiming English are literally 20% Italian. Just showing you can model the English as 80% Anglo-Saxon with the right samples, just like an agenda-driven person can show the Irish as "more Anglo-Saxon" than the English with the right samples.

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Originally Posted by Pulkher

This is a PCA I made using Eurogenes K13. As you can see, the English are mostly pre-Anglo-Saxon and it is therefore unlikely that (on average) they are 80% Anglo-Saxon.
The brown dots: English samples (Romans and Iron Age) ranging from 200 BC to 200 AD.
The blue dots: English samples (Anglo-Saxon) ranging from 460 to 785 AD.

https://i.imgur.com/E7kww9A.png

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I don't think anyone here, nor the study itself, claims that modern English are 80% Anglo-Saxon. Just that the base population in SE England was. Obviously they would have mixed more with other natives as they expanded west and north, hence the 25-40% estimates we see today. Hopefully the study expands upon this and makes some modern estimates,

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Originally Posted by David Johnson

I don't think anyone here, nor the study itself, claims that modern English are 80% Anglo-Saxon. Just that the base population in SE England was. Obviously they would have mixed more with other natives as they expanded west and north, hence the 25-40% estimates we see today. Hopefully the study expands upon this and makes some modern estimates,

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Okay, thanks for the correction.

Modern English (red crosses) between Celtic, Roman, Saxon and Viking age samples from England, in Davidski's Celtic vs Germanic PCA

https://i.postimg.cc/ryLNS4gz/Vahadu...om-PCAeng3.png

With Welsh, Scottish and Bretons added:
https://i.postimg.cc/zJR4F9TB/Vahadu...om-PCAeng4.png

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Originally Posted by Creoda

Modern English (red crosses) between Celtic, Roman, Saxon and Viking age samples from England, in Davidski's Celtic vs Germanic PCA

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Do we have any idea of Pre-Celtic migration populaiton of Brittanny? There were a massive replacement for shure, but probably locals were not so different still.