Ashkenazi Jews are only 1/4 Israelite

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Originally Posted by Far_away

Very nice

Target: FarAway_scaled
Distance: 2.3374% / 0.02337383
48.2 Balkan:Moesian
40.0 Balto-Slavic:Slavic
7.6 Caucasian
4.2 Germanic:Nordland

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Pretty good estimate of their Levantine for Ashkenazis.

Here's a model for Romaniotes and Sephardis
Attachment 132117

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Originally Posted by Peterski

I thought that we already explained this in 2022 but you keep repeating false information.

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It is no false information. You simply dislike it as you first didn't believe it and feel embarrassed by the respective facts.

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Originally Posted by Peterski

The relevant fragment from the city constitution says this:

https://www.radiokrakow.pl/aktualnos...kowa-z-1257-r/

"These voyts also promised to us [to our Royal Majesty] that they will not turn into their co-burghers [of Cracow] any of our serfs, any of Church's serfs, or anybody's serfs, and also any free Poles who have up to this point lived in a village - thanks to which our farms will not become depopulated, and farms owned by bishops, canons, or other persons will also not become depopulated."

So this is not true that Poles were not allowed to settle in Krakow. Only peasants (villagers) were not allowed to do so, and of course not all Poles were villagers.

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I did not speak of settling, I spoke of becoming citizen. And no, also free Poles that had been in villages (where else, there was no city around?), not just Polish peasants, could not become citizens. And you had hardly any cities with Polish citizens so that formulation kept effectively Poles out. Understandably both the Polish king and the foreseen German burghers had to find another formulation than that Poles simply were not admitted. In the text there is even an explaining excuse inserted. And becasue the Polish king was the king the others had to promise him and not the other way around - although the effect was the same when the Polish king issued a text with agreed on conditions.

The formulation is obviously a pretext. Because at that time cities were not very populous and just a part of the population were citizens. The whole surrounding was densely settled with Poles. So if there would at all have gone 100, 200 or 300 Polish individuals to the newly founded city and had become citizens that would not much have influenced the countryside, of course.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peterski

Also as you can see the motive for this law was not "anti-Slavic racism", but the concern that farms would become depopulated if peasants were allowed to move to the nearby city.

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Are you really not aware of that the German burghers and the Polish king will have had different motivations? The German burghers will not have cared for the financial fate of the Polish owned villages but for the Germanness of the city of Krakau and the Polish king will not have cared for the latter but for the former. The Polish king had no interest in the Germaness of Krakau but Germans demanded that and if the Polish king would not have agreed, there would simply not have become attracted Germans with their various skills and this was what the Polish king needed. Poles he had enough already.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peterski

And as for when did Cracow become Polonised - already in 1312 every citizen who could not pronounce "soczewica, koło, miele, młyn" was killed.

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Are you serious? This was just a Polish persecution of Germans that were about to achieve a notable political take-over. German was the city language for abt 300 years and in 1532 the Polish king Sigismund I. ordered that all city administrational employees were required to know both German and Polish. This was not for forcefully supporting or introducing German, of course, but for forcefully supporting or introducing Polish. You are skilled with finding things out, so I wonder what's your problem in this case. The balanced bilinguality and eventual turn to Polish language was in the 16th century.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peterski

Another thing is that the city of Cracow expanded and absorbed some villages into its suburbs, so some Polish villagers were absorbed anyway.

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The citizenship was a high legal status that not every resident had. So under no circumstances anyone became "absorbed" and automatically citizen in the 13th and 14th century, lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peterski

Can you provide sources for this claim and also can you prove that this law was universally applied in all cities rather than just in some cities?

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I expressed badly. I meant it was at all just applied in the Ostsiedlung territory and not in Cologne f. i. It was not universally applied. It depended on each guild and each city what policy they made at what time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peterski

We discussed the "Wendish paragraph" (anti-Slavic laws) on Polish history forum but I don't remember it being universally applied everywhere:

https://www-historycy-org.translate....en&_x_tr_hl=pl

I have read about the "Wendish paragraph" in several sources, but I don't remember any of these sources claiming what you claim.

And of course the "Wendish paragraph" is just a colloquial term for all kinds of anti-Slavic laws, not a name of some specific law.

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Yes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Paraksenos

Pretty good estimate of their Levantine for Ashkenazis.

Here's a model for Romaniotes and Sephardis
Attachment 132117

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This is maybe good model of modern populations for them :confused:

https://i.imgur.com/1dHO4ES.png

Getting way more Samaritan than Ashkenazi

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Demirkazık

https://i.ibb.co/fFvxKwQ/floorp-9jd7iqvu-Lu.png

This is a better model for Ashkenazi Jews and Europeans. Most of the samples are from the Imperial Roman Age.

Code:

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Anatolian:Ḫattuša,0.1064245,0.152837,-0.0422375,-0.0686375,-0.0089245,-0.0192435,-0.00188,-0.0061155,-0.0068515,0.022871,0.0043035,0.0018735,-0.0165755,0.0086015,-0.013097,-0.004309,0.0048895,-0.002787,0.0017595,-0.005315,-0.0009355,-0.0005565,-0.0023415,0.0019885,-0.00455
Caucasian,0.1052865,0.13405,-0.0671275,-0.034238,-0.0533945,-0.0029285,0.013043,-0.006346,-0.0766965,-0.033805,0.0006495,0.013413,-0.0260155,-0.000275,0.004886,-0.0207505,0.012843,-0.000507,-0.010496,0.019134,0.017906,-0.0011745,-0.0043755,-0.0147005,-0.0044905
Balkan:Moesian,0.121791,0.1590993,0.0131993,-0.0301467,0.0321083,-0.0135727,0.00235,0.0030767,0.003886,0.0335313,0.0061707,0.0105907,-0.0143213,-0.0014223,-0.02072,-0.0010163,0.0149073,0.0019847,0.008799,-0.0065863,-0.0112303,0.008079,-0.00341,0.003414,-0.0011577
Roman:Rome,0.1088434,0.1515678,-0.0004242,-0.0366605,0.019388,-0.0162105,-0.0015569,-0.0043556,0.0053178,0.0234401,0.0005072,0.004496,-0.0079534,-0.0013245,-0.0066334,-0.0028674,0.002298,-0.0005541,0.0020742,-0.0000311,-0.0012011,0.0005101,0.0034815,-0.0015364,-0.0007185
Roman:Picenum,0.1104085,0.1500445,0.0028282,-0.0457045,0.0199268,-0.0171518,0.0000588,-0.002423,0.0099192,0.0283832,0.0051558,0.0056952,-0.0081022,-0.0020642,-0.006311,-0.004707,0.0022492,-0.0002215,0.0046822,-0.0014068,-0.0035565,0.003246,-0.0032045,-0.002952,-0.0039815
Mesopotamian:Dinkha-Tepe,0.0902048,0.1409048,-0.0628848,-0.0776008,-0.027005,-0.0253092,0.0018212,-0.0072692,-0.010584,0.0013668,0.0073888,-0.003709,0.0090312,-0.000757,-0.0025785,0.0126955,-0.0007825,0.0027238,0.003771,-0.0038455,0.0045858,0.002195,-0.0052995,-0.0013858,0.0025445
Canaanite,0.0840665,0.148393,-0.0634209,-0.1014829,-0.0118078,-0.0396034,-0.0043807,-0.0094099,0.013829,0.0086646,0.0101956,-0.0108203,0.0216497,0.0046582,-0.0096671,0.0086647,-0.0030674,0.0020017,0.002749,0.0064067,0.0042414,0.0053394,-0.0035185,-0.0008072,-0.0001107
Celtic:Insular:Roscommon,0.1265792,0.1315286,0.0600402,0.0508447,0.0368238,0.0178875,0.000705,0.0048618,0.0043937,0.0011438,-0.0062604,0.0071419,-0.0153941,-0.0164436,0.0252954,0.007832,-0.0080209,0.0015596,0.0018855,0.0036828,0.0051288,0.0038034,0.0013388,0.0119334,-0.0005368
Celtic:Continental:Faux-Vesigneul,0.1277096,0.1367916,0.057624,0.0362406,0.0469625,0.0108209,0.005499,0.0028846,0.0085288,0.0121734,-0.0034263,0.0071935,-0.0125322,-0.008794,0.0130562,-0.0031025,-0.0104828,0.0017104,0.0024637,-0.0009129,0.0050038,0.0049585,-0.0013803,-0.0012772,-0.0015806
Germanic:Öland,0.1255306,0.1260707,0.0751547,0.0613239,0.0448874,0.0220723,0.0060429,0.0101864,0.005376,-0.0036186,-0.0041293,-0.000942,-0.0037801,0.0015729,0.0162863,0.0066106,-0.0052527,0.0024253,0.0064287,0.0067174,0.0068091,0.0015016,0.0011444,0.0097604,-0.0000686
Germanic:Nordland,0.133173,0.127957,0.073916,0.063308,0.046162,0.019801,0.003055,0.003,0.003068,-0.009112,-0.014615,0.002997,-0.010258,-0.009634,0.027144,0.007425,-0.002477,0.001774,0.003771,0.01088,0.007487,0.005564,0.000246,0.010122,-0.005149
Germanic:Zealand,0.127482,0.131003,0.066185,0.066538,0.042931,0.0214745,0.0027025,0.0129225,0.00859,-0.010934,-0.003816,0.0080175,-0.0043855,-0.004542,0.0217835,0.007027,-0.0131685,0.008488,0.005091,0.0075035,0.0086725,0.007172,0.001171,0.013315,0.0015565
Balto-Slavic:Baltic,0.1305171,0.1268283,0.1001044,0.1110769,0.048385,0.0399124,0.0145449,0.0188197,-0.000568,-0.0488596,-0.0003249,-0.0189164,0.0329201,0.0433512,-0.0168293,0.0013113,0.0021294,-0.0014498,-0.0003212,0.0077817,-0.0024957,-0.0051934,0.0092299,-0.0223726,0.0025412
Balto-Slavic:Slavic,0.135449,0.128972,0.080704,0.063954,0.034776,0.034025,0.006815,0.007615,0.009613,-0.02041,-0.001461,-0.005245,0.010852,0.026561,-0.014658,-0.002254,0.002347,0.001267,0.01081,-0.001751,0.001622,-0.002844,0.009613,-0.008314,0.005389
Turkic:Oghuz,0.070001,-0.178733,0.052797,0.007106,-0.0438545,-0.0110165,0.0047,0.0119995,-0.010942,-0.0073805,-0.0178625,-0.002173,0.00171,-0.0099775,0.0026465,0.002254,-0.0065845,0.002597,0.011753,0.0106925,-0.020713,-0.000804,-0.0109075,-0.0024705,-0.001497

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Target: Grace_scaled
Distance: 1.7108% / 0.01710770
51.2 Germanic
43.0 InsularCeltic
3.0 Roman
1.8 Celtic
1.0 Caucasian

Target: Grace_scaled
Distance: 1.7039% / 0.01703889
53.0 Germanic:Nordland
41.0 InsularCeltic:Insular:Roscommon
3.6 Anatolian:Ḫattuša
1.4 Celtic:Continental:Faux-Vesigneul
1.0 Germanic:Zealand

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rothaer

And no, also free Poles that had been in villages (where else, there was no city around?), not just Polish peasants

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Free Poles from villages are simply free peasants. Not all peasants were serfs, these terms are not synonymous.

Poles who were townsmen in other towns or grods and Poles who were nobles could become citizens in Cracow.

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Originally Posted by rothaer

And you had hardly any cities with Polish citizens

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Urbanization in Poland did not start with the Ostsiedlung. There existed cities, towns and grods (strongholds) with Polish inhabitants.

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Originally Posted by rothaer

It depended on each guild and each city what policy they made at what time.

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In other words you have no source to support this claim. I asked you for source and you provided none.

So Ashkenazi Jews are imperial era Romans who converted to Judaism ��

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Originally Posted by Dušan

This is maybe good model of modern populations for them :confused:

https://i.imgur.com/1dHO4ES.png

Getting way more Samaritan than Ashkenazi

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Don't North African Jews need an Imperial Roman proxy like Ashkenazis, Sephardics and Romaniotes do?

add this
0.South.Greece/West.Anatolia(Roman_era_1-200AD):Imperial_Rome(Mugla_profile)+Mugla,0.108738 9,0.1527357,-0.0335888,-0.0700049,0.0004309,-0.0225901,0.0002193,-0.0049076,-0.0057949,0.0243225,0.0046767,0.0034469,-0.0066204,0.0031103,-0.0139793,-0.0054362,0.0047721,0.0004729,0.0040811,-0.0070116,-0.0044421,0.0023824,-0.0023993,0.0029722,0.0008222

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mopi Licinius Crassus

So Ashkenazi Jews are imperial era Romans who converted to Judaism ��

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They still retain 20% direct Levantine ancestry, so they are not just converts. They just mixed a lot with Imperial Romans.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mopi Licinius Crassus

So Ashkenazi Jews are imperial era Romans who converted to Judaism ��

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I don't think so. As I said, the "Rome_Imperial" average is heterogenous, it includes many individuals who are even 100% MENA. The "Rome_Imperial" average includes many MENA immigrants to Rome as well as many individuals with partial MENA ancestry.

We don't really know if the entire population of Italy was as MENA-shifted as the "Rome_Imperial" average.