Russianness index

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rumata

What means say "Estonian" in these maps? Is it the supposed average of all Estonian citizens or of all ethnic Estonians in Estonia or what?

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Good and important question. We must be clear about what exactly we are comparing here and measuring genetic distances to.

To be crystal clear, Russians and other minorities are not included in the Estonian average. Even mixed Estonians with a recent Russian ancestry (2-3 generations) are not included. To include them would be fraudulent and misleading.

On the other hand, when it comes to Belarus and Ukraine, many people in those averages likely do have recent Russian ancestry, as it is much harder to draw distinctions there due to lack of significant cultural barriers (very similar East Slavic languages, Orthodox Christianity, pan-Rus' nostalgia).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mina

Good and important question. We must be clear about what exactly we are comparing here and measuring genetic distances to.

To be crystal clear, Russians and other minorities are not included in the Estonian average. Even mixed Estonians with a recent Russian ancestry (2-3 generations) are not included. To include them would be fraudulent and misleading.

On the other hand, when it comes to Belarus and Ukraine, many people in those averages likely do have recent Russian ancestry, as it is much harder to draw distinctions there due to lack of significant cultural barriers (very similar East Slavic languages, Orthodox Christianity, pan-Rus' nostalgia).

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In this case, these maps say that the average Yaroslavl Russian is genetically closer to the average non-mixed Finn or Estonian or Latvian or Lithuanian or Pole than to the average possible Russian admixtured Ukrainian. Imo, it's totally incredible. Basically this map says Yaroslavl Russians genetically are more Finnic than Slavic.

Zero


Target: m_wgs
Distance: 1.0606% / 0.01060588 | R3P
67.2 Slovenian
25.8 Albanian_Kosovo
7.0 British


Target: m_wgs
Distance: 1.0572% / 0.01057174 | R3P
52.6 Albanian_Kosovo
25.8 Latvian
21.6 British


0.013 95% Croat + 5% Georgian
0.013 85% Bosniak + 15% British
0.013 78% Serb + 22% Icelander
0.013 62% Montenegrin + 38% German

Code:

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Distance to:        m_wgs
0.01432350        Bosniak
0.01473641        Croat
0.01852028        Serb
0.02028448        Slovenian
0.02082032        Montenegrin
0.02101832        Hungarian
0.02260014        Moldovan
0.02422371        Austrian
0.02588931        North_Macedonian
0.02594277        Romanian
0.02953761        German
0.03191574        Czech
0.03406906        Bulgarian
0.03411209        Slovakian
0.03808525        French
0.03823768        Dutch
0.04202564        British
0.04328661        Ukrainian
0.04632930        Danish
0.04757855        Norwegian
0.04808701        Irish
0.04824286        Polish
0.04920698        Icelander
0.05073139        Swedish
0.05086356        Albanian_Kosovo
0.05580757        Albanian
0.05955078        Spanish
0.06187062        Belarusian
0.06195869        Russian_Ryazan
0.06416470        Russian_Kaluga
0.06503634        Portuguese
0.06645328        Italian
0.06902258        Russian_Tver
0.07407979        Greek
0.07553476        Russian_Yaroslavl
0.07860651        Lithuanian
0.07992793        Estonian
0.08886616        Finnish
0.08959887        Latvian
0.13224820        Turkish
0.13829615        Georgian
0.14276362        Azerbaijani
0.14630374        Armenian
0.37854503        Kazakh

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Opie

Target: OP
Distance: 16.9010% / 0.16900998
72.6 Kazakh
27.4 Azerbaijani

Distance to: OP
0.19120737 Kazakh
0.29008623 Azerbaijani
0.29028269 Turkish
0.33877266 Georgian
0.34090497 Finnish
0.34161723 Armenian
0.34566727 Romanian
0.34586861 Moldovan
0.34823018 Russian_Ryazan
0.34844076 Bulgarian
0.34910769 Russian_Tver
0.34962916 Portuguese
0.35013266 Greek
0.35128853 Russian_Yaroslavl
0.35262034 Italian
0.35272423 North_Macedonian
0.35328470 Hungarian
0.35333597 Montenegrin
0.35359171 Serb
0.35394812 Albanian_Kosovo
0.35431167 Albanian
0.35600153 Bosniak
0.35602153 Spanish
0.35715192 Slovakian
0.35726627 Croat


Terrible distances.

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Target: Defcon2_scaled
Distance: 19.6408% / 0.19640800
79.6 Kazakh
20.4 Portuguese

I have the same problem, I've tried with all the user coordinates I have and they also don't work.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rumata

In this case, these maps say that the average Yaroslavl Russian is genetically closer to the average non-mixed Finn or Estonian or Latvian or Lithuanian or Pole than to the average possible Russian admixtured Ukrainian. Imo, it's totally incredible. Basically this map says Yaroslavl Russians genetically are more Finnic than Slavic.

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What do you think about these results from Ukraine? There's a stunning correlation between genetic similarity to Russians and oblasts which Russia currently claims as parts of Russia.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...eir-neighbours

SK = Slovakia
PL = Poland
HU = Hungary
MD = Moldova
BY = Belarus
RUS = Russia

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Defcon2

Target: Defcon2_scaled
Distance: 19.6408% / 0.19640800
79.6 Kazakh
20.4 Portuguese

I have the same problem, I've tried with all the user coordinates I have and they also don't work.

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We are doing something wrong, but I don’t know which part.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Opie

We are doing something wrong, but I don’t know which part.

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You need new IllustrativeDNA coordinates, not the Davidsky G25 ones

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fistora

You need new IllustrativeDNA coordinates, not the Davidsky G25 ones

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Thanks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mina

What do you think about these results from Ukraine? There's a stunning correlation between genetic similarity to Russians and oblasts which Russia currently claims as parts of Russia.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...eir-neighbours

SK = Slovakia
PL = Poland
HU = Hungary
MD = Moldova
BY = Belarus
RUS = Russia

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Genetics is a mystery to me. It's even more a mystery now that Yaroslavl is said to be genetically more Finnic than Slavic.

I find this post about ethnic Russians interesting:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...=1#post8327315

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rumata

Genetics is a mystery to me. It's even more a mystery now that Yaroslavl is said to be genetically more Finnic than Slavic.

I find this post about ethnic Russians interesting:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...=1#post8327315

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Estonia at the first place doesn't imply that Yaroslavl or Tver or any other Russian oblast is "more Finnic than Slavic". While it's difficult to precisely quantify how much Slavic and Baltic ancestry modern Estonians have, they're definitely not some kind of 100% pure Finnic people.

Yaroslavl, Tver, Ryazan, Kaluga are all genetically very close Central Russians, and slight perturbations in admixture lead to a flipping/rotation between Estonia and Belarus as their closest pop. But for all of them Belarus is consistently closer than Finland (Finns also have a complex ancestry — a mix of Finnic, Saamic and pre-Germanic Battle Axe Scandinavian ancestries — which means that distance to Finns is not a reliable indicator of "Finnicness" either).

tl;dr this thread is about genetic similarity (or dissimilarity) of Central Russians to modern European countries, not to Iron Age.