Sometaims idiz hart to distinguish bitwin Guz and Iranians.
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Sometaims idiz hart to distinguish bitwin Guz and Iranians.
I don't know much about Oghuz Turks, but the Seljuk Turks (Turkmen) heavily mixed with the eastern Iranic people in Central Asia. Old Seljuks (Turkmen) were mongrel people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Proto-Shaman
I think Turks and Iranians were the same shit. Both have agglutination.Quote:
Originally Posted by MS85
Western Iranians are native to an area around Zagros/Northern Mesopotamia/Southwest Caspian Sea, while original Turks are from Central Asia/Altai. Our Western Iranian language is from West Asia, while Turkic language is from Central Asia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Proto-Shaman
Our languages are very different. Iranic has ergativity, while Turkic as an Altaic language doesn't have any ergativity.
Also, both groups belong to 2 different races and different cultures. Western Iranians have a lot ancient Iranian Plateau farmer auDNA. It is our 'native' auDNA. And our culture is linked to Mesopotamia. But it is true that the Aryans from the Iranian Plateau spread their auDNA into the Steppes, still it is not really native to the Siberian/Mongoloid folks in the Steppes.
Another oneQuote:
Originally Posted by Leto
HarappaWorld Oracle results:Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 41.13
2 Baloch 28.11
3 SW-Asian 11.84
4 Mediterranean 5.97
5 S-Indian 5.45
6 NE-Euro 4.63
7 American 1.12
8 SE-Asian 0.78
9 NE-Asian 0.49
10 Siberian 0.4
11 E-African 0.06
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 iranian (harappa) 3.16
2 kurd (harappa) 3.93
3 iranian (behar) 4.52
4 kurd (yunusbayev) 5.58
5 kurd (xing) 5.58
6 turkish (harappa) 10.23
7 azeri (harappa) 10.37
8 uzbekistan-jew (behar) 10.89
9 armenian (harappa) 11.88
10 iraqi-arab (harappa) 13.73
11 turk (behar) 14.62
12 turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) 14.7
13 iraqi-mandaean (harappa) 14.74
14 assyrian (harappa) 14.85
15 turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) 15.18
16 turkmen (yunusbayev) 15.79
17 iranian-jew (behar) 15.95
18 azerbaijan-jew (behar) 16.47
19 kumyk (yunusbayev) 17.08
20 georgia-jew (behar) 17.33
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 91.8% kurd (yunusbayev) + 8.2% gujarati-patel (harappa) @ 1.46
2 91.6% kurd (yunusbayev) + 8.4% gujarati-a (1000genomes) @ 1.48
3 87.3% kurd (yunusbayev) + 12.7% gujarati-muslim (harappa) @ 1.54
4 90.8% kurd (yunusbayev) + 9.2% kerala-nair (harappa) @ 1.56
5 90.5% kurd (yunusbayev) + 9.5% tn-brahmin (xing) @ 1.62
6 90.6% kurd (yunusbayev) + 9.4% gujarati (harappa) @ 1.64
7 90.4% kurd (yunusbayev) + 9.6% gujarati-b (hapmap) @ 1.64
8 90.7% kurd (yunusbayev) + 9.3% iyer-brahmin (harappa) @ 1.65
9 90.9% kurd (yunusbayev) + 9.1% ap-brahmin (xing) @ 1.68
10 90.5% kurd (yunusbayev) + 9.5% meghawal (reich) @ 1.69
11 90.5% kurd (yunusbayev) + 9.5% brahmin-tamil-nadu (metspalu) @ 1.69
12 91.5% kurd (yunusbayev) + 8.5% ap-reddy (harappa) @ 1.69
13 91% kurd (yunusbayev) + 9% singapore-indian-b (sgvp) @ 1.69
14 88.3% kurd (yunusbayev) + 11.7% punjabi-arain (xing) @ 1.7
15 90.5% kurd (yunusbayev) + 9.5% karnataka-brahmin (harappa) @ 1.71
16 90.5% kurd (yunusbayev) + 9.5% up-kshatriya (metspalu) @ 1.71
17 90.8% kurd (yunusbayev) + 9.2% iyengar-brahmin (harappa) @ 1.71
18 89.4% kurd (yunusbayev) + 10.6% cochin-jew (behar) @ 1.72
19 90.5% kurd (yunusbayev) + 9.5% maharashtrian (harappa) @ 1.72
20 88.6% kurd (yunusbayev) + 11.4% kashmiri-pahari (harappa) @ 1.73
My Father Azeri-Turk from Iran, with minor Mazandarani and Persian ancestry:
HarappaWorld
1 Caucasian 39.44
2 Baloch 21.23
3 NE-Euro 10.91
4 SW-Asian 8.6
5 Mediterranean 6.88
6 S-Indian 4.26
7 NE-Asian 3.91
8 Siberian 3.58
9 Beringian 0.52
10 E-African 0.44
11 SE-Asian 0.23
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 azeri (harappa) 5.96
2 iranian (harappa) 7.14
3 turkish (harappa) 7.16
4 kurd (harappa) 7.68
5 kurd (yunusbayev) 9.44
6 iranian (behar) 9.49
7 turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) 9.54
8 turk (behar) 10.12
9 turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) 10.16
10 kurd (xing) 10.58
11 armenian (harappa) 11.68
12 turkmen (yunusbayev) 11.69
13 uzbekistan-jew (behar) 12.43
14 kumyk (yunusbayev) 12.52
15 turk-aydin (hodoglugil) 13.37
16 stalskoe (xing) 13.84
17 iraqi-arab (harappa) 14.38
18 assyrian (harappa) 16.75
19 lezgin (behar) 16.92
20 iraqi-mandaean (harappa) 18.5
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 79.4% turk (behar) + 20.6% bhatia (harappa) @ 2.33
2 77.2% turk (behar) + 22.8% pathan (hgdp) @ 2.4
3 78.3% turk (behar) + 21.7% sindhi (harappa) @ 2.57
4 72.3% turk (behar) + 27.7% pashtun (harappa) @ 2.57
5 78.7% turk (behar) + 21.3% burusho (hgdp) @ 2.72
6 77.1% turk (behar) + 22.9% kalash (hgdp) @ 2.78
7 79.5% turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) + 20.5% bhatia (harappa) @ 2.8
8 77.3% turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) + 22.7% pathan (hgdp) @ 2.8
9 77% turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) + 23% kalash (hgdp) @ 2.84
10 80.9% turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) + 19.1% balochi (hgdp) @ 2.91
11 72.4% turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) + 27.6% pashtun (harappa) @ 2.98
12 79.7% turk (behar) + 20.3% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) @ 3.01
13 85.7% azeri (harappa) + 14.3% haryana-jatt (harappa) @ 3.05
14 78.5% turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) + 21.5% sindhi (harappa) @ 3.05
15 81.1% turk (behar) + 18.9% punjabi-arain (xing) @ 3.09
16 79.6% turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) + 20.4% sindhi (harappa) @ 3.1
17 80.8% turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) + 19.2% bhatia (harappa) @ 3.11
18 77.3% azeri (harappa) + 22.7% tajik (yunusbayev) @ 3.12
19 78.7% turk (behar) + 21.3% punjabi-khatri (harappa) @ 3.13
20 78.7% turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) + 21.3% pathan (hgdp) @ 3.16
HarappaWorld
1 Caucasian 40.8
2 Baloch 27.84
3 SW-Asian 13.91
4 Mediterranean 8.27
5 NE-Euro 3.91
6 S-Indian 2.22
7 Siberian 1.13
8 American 0.89
9 SE-Asian 0.65
10 Papuan 0.37
Population (source) Distance
1 kurd (harappa) 3.25
2 iranian (behar) 4.44
3 iranian (harappa) 4.71
4 kurd (xing) 4.74
5 kurd (yunusbayev) 5.33
6 uzbekistan-jew (behar) 9.16
7 turkish (harappa) 9.44
8 armenian (harappa) 10.46
9 azeri (harappa) 10.84
My sibling matches all but the second one on small segments.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajeje Brazorf
Damn you're almost twice as close to iranian average than my father despite being a yazidi and not from IranQuote:
Originally Posted by MS85
Can you post Eurogenes k13 aswell?
What about internal Iranian differences and trends? AFAIK the Eastern parts have more south asian admixture, but what about the Caspian region? Or the South-West?
We are the purest Kurds and therefore the closest people to the proto-West Iranic people (Aryans/Umman-manda). Your father has Turkic/Central Asian DNA, that's why he has more EHG/Siberian.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyp Snow
Eurogenes K13 Oracle results:
# Population Percent
1 West_Asian 39.59
2 East_Med 31.79
3 South_Asian 8.5
4 West_Med 7.7
5 Red_Sea 5.02
6 Baltic 3.2
7 North_Atlantic 2.32
8 Siberian 1
9 Sub-Saharan 0.42
10 Amerindian 0.39
11 Northeast_African 0.06
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Kurdish 2.81
2 Iranian 5.07
3 Azeri 6.82
4 Armenian 7.53
5 Georgian_Jewish 8.37
6 Assyrian 10.98
7 Turkish 11.23
8 Iranian_Jewish 13.4
9 Kurdish_Jewish 14.01
10 Georgian 15.44
11 Kumyk 16.11
12 Abhkasian 16.46
13 Adygei 17.79
Caspian region (mazandarani and gilak) also has more south asian admixture. The south-west has more arabian markers (red-sea, southwestasian, SSA)Quote:
Originally Posted by SharpFork
Northwest is around 8% East Eurasian.
8% EE? In Khorasan? I'm still waiting for results from Khorasan, I expect a bit more Baltic and shit like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyp Snow
Khorasan is northeast. Don't know about the northeastern results either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto
This girl is from the northeast.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgNA79RXKKg
Ah, yes, the NW is Azerbaijan. I think it's 5-7% mongoloid on average, like the Republic of Azerbaijan.
I think the EE in the northeast varies a lot. A lot of Turkmens and Afghans are living there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto
I think East Eurasian is probably closer to 15% in NW Iran. The calculators that show 8% such as Eurasia k3 and others use other components that hide East Eurasian. For ex in Eurasia k3 calculator i looked at the spreadsheet on gedmatch and noticed that they use Caucasians and Europeans as W. Eurasian references but the problem is that Europeans and Caucasians themselves also have E. Eurasian from all the west to east migrations after the Bronze age.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyp Snow
The only way to get total E. Eurasian admixture in Europeans and W. Asians is someone will have to design a k3 calculator with SSA component, ENF component, and E. Asian component. This calculator will give everyone their total E. Eurasian admixture.
Actually SW Iranians such as Bandaris, Shirazis, and SE Iraqis have pretty high S Asian admixture. Next time look at when a Shirazi or Bandari or Basra Iraqi posts their 23andme or some calculator results. You’ll be surprised. It’s from all the spice trade between the Persian Gulf and India. Remember Sindbad the sailor. He was from Basra Iraq :DQuote:
Originally Posted by SharpFork
This is why people from Basra Iraq look Indian
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/JOsNwPN.jpg[/IMG]
You're wrong, K3 exaggerates the East Eurasian a lot. Central and Western Europeans get 3-4% on that one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
No dude I’m right. You have no idea what I’m talking about. I’m not talking about the recent E. Asian within the last300 years like 23andme. I’m talking about the older E Asian in the Iron Age and the recent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto
Where do you think the mongoloid looking Kurds Iranians or other W Asians get their looks from. If you think they get it from the 5 % more recent E Asian that will be hilarious . They get it from the 15 or 20% old E. Asian. All someone has to do is make a k3 calculator with SSA, ENF, and E. Asian components and all that hidden E Asian will come pouring out trust me :D
E eurasian could just be ASI lol on K3. doesnt have to be mongoloid. I get 41% E eurasian, doesnt mean im 41% mongoloid/E asian. For toorks, kurds, maybe its all E asian, but for iranians its definitely ASIQuote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
Iran, Iranians or Persians have much more 'Mongoloid' DNA than Kurds/Kurdistan. Turco-Persian history has been recorded.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thambi
But I do agree with the rest that Kurds don't have much of E.Eurasian auDNA. Most in Kurds is from the Scythians..
Well Kurds and W and some NE Iranians have similar ASI, and I agree that your E Eurasian is ASI but if you think about it ASI is mostly E Eurasian of the SE Asian type anyways. To me SE Asian old or new is not much different from good old E AsianQuote:
Originally Posted by Thambi
No doubt Indians are heavily E Eurasian
I'm sure a lot of your E. Eurasian component is actually from the Scythians who also brought R1a to the Indian Peninsula around 1500 BC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thambi
Indians are actually full of the so called 'Mongoloid' DNA from Central Asia.
How Do Persians and Iranians have much more mongoloid than Kurds when I, some of my 100% kurdish relatves and kurdish Gedmatch kits have more E Eurasian than many Iranians. I can post some calculator results later if you likeQuote:
Originally Posted by MS85
Actually I have seen some Iranians score the same or even less east Asian than you
Just ask the Azerbaijani folks, they know everything about it. In Iran live also much, much more Turkmen and other Turkic speaking people than in Kurdistan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
And with all due respect, you do also have some distant Turkmen ancestry. You don't really represent the 100% pure Kurds.
And like I said, and I do agree with you, most Central Asian DNA in Kurdistan is from the Scythians
Btw I agree with you about Saka and north Indians. I thought I saw the Zoroastrians and a couple of other Iranians with less or similar east Asian than youQuote:
Originally Posted by MS85
I will post some of the 23andme and Gedmatch for some of the 100% Kurdish kits later One of them btw is a V5 kit . On 23andme I have seen many Iranian DNA matches for the Kurdish kits And they show 0% east Asian Where is some shell 1% but I guess that’s pretty high for 23andme
And it might be possible that the ancient Zoroastrians had less East Asian than me. We are both Kurds and like you, I do have also a lot ancient Saka/Scythian ancestry, since some Saka settled in Kurdish mountains. Plus, I think all Kurds have some post-Saka Turkic DNA in them. But not that much. It is also possible that ancient Zoroastrians had much less Saka ancestry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
On 23andMe I don't have any East Asian either:
https://i.postimg.cc/bv1TJPsW/23andme.jpg
Yeah so clearly 23andme doesn’t show any E Asian older than 300 years that’s why heavily E Eurasian Indians also show 0 SE oe E Asian on 23andmeQuote:
Originally Posted by MS85
Btw you still have 0.2% E Asian on 23andme. Hey that’s still higher than the 0% Iranian matches I’ve seen there
As much South Asian admixture as the East? It seems weird if that's the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyp Snow
What about the Caucasus, non-EE Steppe or Med influence? Some of those might have been obscured by the Turkic migration influencing a lot of Iran but I wonder what the pattern were before then, how Caucasian was the pre-Turkic Azeri region etc., or Mediterranean influence in some places.
If anything I'd argue a 5% recent influence is a better explanation, because if it's older there can be selection or just bottleneck effects or a plethora of things changing phenotype.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
Despite being polygenic a 5% influence can very well translate into the East Asian appearance of some people, not sure why that's unlikely for you. In any case 15-20% is ridiculously high, it reaches level of genetic replacement necessary from Central Asian Turks that would make hard to explain a lot of things going on in Turkey or Azerbaijan IMO.
Just stop trying to 'Kurdify' every Mongoloid DNA in Kurdistan. If you have some doesn't mean that other Kurds must have also some, since you found out that you had some Turkmen ancestors in the past. Just accept you have some and move on. And do not make the same mistakes as your ancestors did and stop mixing with the Turks/Turkmen or Semites/Arabs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
I have got maybe 1-2% Mongoloid real Turkic DNA in me. But as an Ezdi Kurd I belong to a Kurdish minority. I think that on average (of 50 million) Kurds have maybe for about 3-4% Mongoloid real Turkic DNA and it is not Kurdish because it is not native to Kurdistan and it is from the Altai/Central Asia.
But I do agree with you that some is very ancient and is related to the ancient Saka/Scythian people who came to the Median Empire 2500 years ago. Nevertheless, not very much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SharpFork
I seriously don’t think 5% is enough to give such marked mongoloid phenotype. Here’s why. First, we have all seen 50% E Asian/ 50% European kids and many of those kids even though 1 parent is E Asian, they barely look E Asian and certainly less E Asian than some of the Kurds Iranians and some Caucasians. So I’ll never be convinced 5% is enough case closed.
Second, remember the many Indian looking S Iraqis like the ones I posted on the previous page we can both agree there wasn’t alot of admixture between them and Indians recently otherwise admixture calculators would pick it up. I think that’s old shared some sore of Mesopotamian or some Neolithic farmer between the 2.
With regards to population replacement who said all the E Asian in W Asians was a 1 time event. It’s actually due to multiple waves from the east starting around the Iron Age with Saka and then various Turkic .
I think you gave me an incentive to learn admixture software to build a k3 SSA, ENF, E Asian calculator. Let the chips fall where they may :)
Remember that a 20 ft ladder isn’t needed to climb a 20ft wall. 3 six ft ladders can also do the trick ( 3 vs 1 admixture waves) haha
Just stop here. There are millions of native Africans with the Mongoloid phenotype.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
https://i.postimg.cc/W4k5XLpn/naamloos.png
Mongoloid phenotype CAN come out, even if you have got only 1 percentage of it!
In Eastern Europe there is plenty of mongoloid-ish looking people and they're barely 10% East Asian/Siberian - hell, in some cases barely 5%. Have you not seen the two Tatar females and their DNA results that I posted? They are less than 20% mongoloid on GEDmatch (Siberian, East Asian, all that stuff) but nevertheless look very Asiatic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
Pheotypic expressions of genes are often very random.
Also it depends on where you grew up. To someone who has lived their entire life somewhere in deep France or Spain certain Eastern European faces may look "mongoloid" even though they would be far from Chinese racially and genetically and wouldn't be perceived as such in Asia. The same goes for black people by the way. Barack Obama may look black in America but in Kenya he would look clearly foreign.
These TV show stars look extremely mongoloid and the kids are only 25% Korean! (75% white European)
https://i0.heartyhosting.com/radaron...92%2C446&ssl=1
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/newpix/2...5071581907.jpg
https://pmchollywoodlife.files.wordp...-ftr.jpg?w=620
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kate_Plus_8
She is a white American, presumably 100% European
He is biracial, 50% Korean, 50% white AmericanQuote:
Katie Irene Kreider, who is of German, Scottish, and English descent, was born in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania to Charlene (née Kolak) and Kenton Kreider, a pastor.
Quote:
Jonathan Keith Gosselin was born and raised in Wyomissing, Pennsylvania as the middle child in a family of three children. He has two brothers, Thomas and Mark.[2] Gosselin's mother, Pamela Castello (née Lyum),[3] was born and raised in Hawaii as a second-generation Korean American and his father, Thomas Gosselin (a pediatric dentist), was of French, Irish, and Welsh descent. Gosselin's father died on January 13, 2005.[4][5][6] Jon graduated from Wyomissing High School in 1995.[7]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS85
That’s true but I don’t think W Asians got the phenotype from African pygmies it’s much more likely they got it from e Asians
That’s exactly my point those damn calculators don’t measure total E Asian because There is a lot of East Asia hidden in other componentsQuote:
Originally Posted by Leto
For example if a calculator showed me as 90% Turk and 1 % E Asian. Do you seriously think I would be only 1 % E Asian. Wouldn’t the Smart thing would be to ask yourself well how many percent east Asian the Turkish references are ??
The only way you’re going to get a reliable total east Asian percentage is with a K3 calculator with SSA ENF and E Asian components. That’s it
No, I disagree with you 'cause you think we're all somehow super mongoloid but no DNA test is able to show it. That's crap, on a continental level those calcs tend to be quite accurate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
Your substance less response to my post just told me that you are 100% clueless with this type of stuff. I’m not wasting any more time with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto